Eye-eye problem, or not

emr

emr

Location
WI
On my bee-line eye-eye the inner part of the rope is showing. I can see the white part through the black and tan outer part, but only at the bottom of the eyes where you attach the biners. Nothing is actually comming apart like it was picked. I have only been using this eye-eye for about 2 weeks now. Is this common? And is this still safe to climb on?
 
I believe it is EMR. The balack and tan outerpart is just the protective covering of it. The real strenght comes from the hollow braid core. So as long as the splice itself is still in good shape and was done properly and there's no cut or picked threads it should be good to climb on.
 
I figured it was safe, but I wanted some reassurance. I would still like some feed back as to if this is common with bee-line.
 
It is spliced, and I can try to get a pic. I am not very good with this computer stuff, but I will try on Monday or Tuesday. Thanks for responding Nick.
 
Here are some picts of mine and my co-workers. Both ropes have only been in use a few weeks.
 

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I have no idea how to resize these, sorry about this.
 

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It looks like the inner core is slipping out of the splice. Not good. I bet the inner core would not slip out of a scaffold knot.
 
Tell me about it. I really like the bee-line, but it is too long for me. I might try some in bulk and tie the knots myself.
 
Ok I am curious on this if it's an eye and eye why they left the cover on and buried it like that? I thought the strength of it was from the core which can be buried in itself. It almost looks like they either buried the whole thing core and all into the core like you would a splice on a 16 strand. I know sherill has a splice similar to this one on the split tail with a single eye but I am not quite sure.
 
wow, that doesn't look right, nick where are you?? we need your help...
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jp
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Looks to me like they did a standard double braid splice on that one. If that is the case it seems to be herniating much like some of their Poison Ivy splices. My guess is that it has more to do with the bend ratio and force on the eye than improper measurements with the splice, but more than likely I am wrong on this. In the case of small eye to eye lanyards for class II double braid cordage I think I prefer the locked Brummel on the core vs. this method.
 
Alright, first I'll hit PU's questions, since his is the easiest:

There are 2 types of Beeline. The way you described it is for the smaller diameter with the Vectran core. The one in the pictures is the larger diameter and the core is polyester...it's Yalex to be exact. In this rope, the cover DOES add to the strength, and thus should be spliced like a typical polyester double braid so that you can take advantage of the strength of the cover AND the core.

Now as to the herniating you're seeing here. If this was in my bag and I noticed it in the morning, I'd still climb on it, but at lunch I'd call who ever made it for me and tell them what happened and that you'd like it replaced for free- and I'm sure they'd have no prob doing it. The cover is there to protect the core, and it can't do that if the core is popping out...also, if the strength is in the core AND the cover, how can the cover be pulling its fair share of the load if the core is herniating and there is slack in the cover.

I say replace, but make sure doing so doesn't cost you any more money.

Also, maybe try the smaller diameter Beeline. It's smaller AND stronger.

love
nick
 
Thanks for the clarification Nick, I forgot that this is actually a Class I Double Braid as the core is plain Yalex.

Hey maybe emr can send one of those cords for an autopsy? It helped me, maybe it will help here as well.
 
FWIW, I've noticed that herniation is more likely to occur in looser woven ropes and in small eyes. This beeline isn't all that loose, but the eye is quite small.

emr- where'd you get those from?

love
nick
 
The rope was from Sherrill. I brought it back today and we will see if they replace it or not. They would not committ until they have seen the rope. We had to purchase new split-tails in the mean time. I sure hope Sherrill replaces it for free because it was clearly not from abuse or misuse. I tired the 8mm Bee-line, since I liked the feel of the bigger stuff.

On a side note, how come this happened to 2 seperate lines for 2 seperate climbers at our company? Is this a problem that others are seeing but not questioning? This kind of thing makes me question putting my life on the line when it comes to others splicing ability. I know the companies do all they can to assure their splices are safe, but how do you really know?
 
Splicers know their splices are safe because they know how the splices function. It is similar to recognizing that a knot or hitch is tied correctly not because you memorized how it looks, but because all the functional parts of the knot or hitch are present in the proper form and working as they should. As Nick stated in an earlier post the eye to eye that you have, while possibly aesthetically defective, is still very functional. You probably wouldn't like half the stuff that I personally climb on, but my cords are typically the rejects that I won't sell to others due to tiny aesthetic faults that don't affect the function of the product.

I agree with you that you should expect quality from the products that you are buying....but I am very certain that Sherrill and others that supply spliced products will not sell you an item that is technically unsafe. Aesthetically they may not be perfect (and there there is no reason to let them get complacent on products that are not of good aesthetic quality), but they are safe. Most companies that supply spliced products routinely get their products tested for strength. I would suggest requesting this break test info from the company if you are worried about the safety. More than likely they will gladly oblige to your request. I know I would.
 
Rich, I am sure what you said is totally correct. I dont know anything about splicing, so I dont know what is safe and what is not. One reason this site is so nice is because guys like me can get issues solved from very knowledgable arborists. As far as these splices, piece of mind is a great thing to have, and $30(which should eventually be refunded) will buy me that piece of mind.

Thanks for all who posted on this subject, I will post a message when this all gets settled from Sherrill just to let you know.
 
I guess it comes down to if you're getting the splicing from someone you have to be a little hesitant in trusting that splice without checking it out. Then again some may not know what to look for in a splice. I've found that the hollow braids are pretty easily spliced and I trust my splicing on them since they are pretty simple but for a climbing line I would rather spend the money and have someone a lot better do what they do and fix me up. I'd like to learn and maybe get comfortable enough to splice my own climbing lines but right now I'll still with my hollow braid splicing till I can have someone sit down with me and show me and do a lot of test pieces.
 
i was going to post then i saw nicks reply, I dont know ropes as well as nick does (we dont see yale and samson etc round my parts too often).

On the herniating point, i have some Marlow doublebraid where the exact same thing happened, its used as a saw strop so i have no problems with using it. In a life line application i wouldn't use is purely down to the aesthetics and that niggiling doubt despite what my brain would be telling me:). i only climb on things that look 110%

Jamie
 
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