Downgrading from a Grapple Saw Truck

[Rooted.Tree.Solutions]

So, our company sold our old stump grinder last week and the couple who bought it said they used to own a Grapple Saw Truck, but they figured they could make just as much money grinding stumps as they could running a Grapple Saw Truck. What?!? I was kind of caught off guard by this comment and I thought, “This guy is either a genius or an idiot.” Has anyone on here ever downgraded from a grapple saw truck to simplify your operation? I’m very curious why one might go this route. The buyer explained the reason they got rid of theirs was because it was just him and his girlfriend. They didn’t have any employees. They didn’t want to keep having to deal with big removals.

 

[Sfoppema]

Around here, most of the stump grinding folks are most of the way retired guys looking for something to do or guys doing it on weekends for beer money. Makes it hard to compete and easy to sub for me. If this couple have any form of marketing, they are likely leaps and bounds ahead of the types of guys I am familiar with.. More and more it seems to be apparent to me that it's less about the finished product, and more about how you market it. Though, if they had a grapple saw, you'd figure they could find a way to market that too....

Seems a bit odd, but maybe just less stress.

 

[Jehinten]

Would seem like less stress and less to maintain, that said, with the right equipment big removals are not hard.

I'd be curious what other equipment they used along with the treemek. One person hand feeding a chipper and loading wood, trying to keep up with a treemek would not only be a lot of work but also a huge bottleneck, canceling out the efficiency and profit of a treemek.

 

[Steve Connally]

Wow. Thats a first. After 3000 hours operating I don't know how i'd feel abut climbing shitty removals I could have done in at least half the time with a Mek. I can see where he's coming from if he's happy being small and not working his ass off or getting employees. There are plenty of 2 or 3 person operations with a Mek That seems to be the perfect sized crew.

 

[Reach]

I’ve thought a couple times about doing only stump grinding, as it is the most profitable service we offer by far. One man with a stump grinder usually bills as much as a four man removal crew with a chipper, skid loader, and two trucks. Unfortunately I don’t think we would have enough business doing only stumps, as there are also some other companies in the area that do just stumps very inexpensively.

 

[colb]

There's a guy in the Florida panhandle that bought a treemek then sold it a number of months later. I don't know his specific reasons, but he was not intending to pick up another one.

Stump grinding should be just as lucrative in many markets. They charge a $250 fee around here for a standard job and can often knock it out in an hour or slightly more. If they have multiple units of the same machine and one of the guys is a decent mechanic, they can maintain and repair it themselves.

 

[deevo]

Wow. Thats a first. After 3000 hours operating I don't know how i'd feel abut climbing shitty removals I could have done in at least half the time with a Mek. I can see where he's coming from if he's happy being small and not working his ass off or getting employees. There are plenty of 2 or 3 person operations with a Mek That seems to be the perfect sized crew.

Same here after having one now, I only have 500 hours on mine so far, I’d never do tree work without it and my other crane again.

 

[treebilly]

I could see it. Less stress, less work, and a lot lower liability. I sold my bucket truck this summer and would honestly just like to do stump grinding plus clean up and restoration. All done with machinery with very little labor involved.
This is for my side work though. M-F I get my fill of big ugly removals

 

[colb]

I could see it. Less stress, less work, and a lot lower liability. I sold my bucket truck this summer and would honestly just like to do stump grinding plus clean up and restoration. All done with machinery with very little labor involved.
This is for my side work though. M-F I get my fill of big ugly removals

You M-Fers should definitely take it easy on the weekends... sorry.

 

[Merle Nelson]

 

[owScott]

doing more work doesnt always equate to more profit. Just doing more work. Profit to effort ratio.

 

[owScott]

I’ve thought a couple times about doing only stump grinding, as it is the most profitable service we offer by far. One man with a stump grinder usually bills as much as a four man removal crew with a chipper, skid loader, and two trucks. Unfortunately I don’t think we would have enough business doing only stumps, as there are also some other companies in the area that do just stumps very inexpensively.

We have talked around this subject of stump grinding in the past. Dont want to hijack this thread, but I would really like to have a more in depth conversation with you around stump grinding and your overall business model. Because I agree its a necesary piece of the puzzle. I have been struggling with pulling the trigger on investing more into grinding. We do a fair amount. Maybe I will start another thread, with all the snow and recovering from surgery I have some time.

 

[TUBES]

Less is more.
the money is in the spraying

 

[Reach]

We have talked around this subject of stump grinding in the past. Dont want to hijack this thread, but I would really like to have a more in depth conversation with you around stump grinding and your overall business model. Because I agree its a necesary piece of the puzzle. I have been struggling with pulling the trigger on investing more into grinding. We do a fair amount. Maybe I will start another thread, with all the snow and recovering from surgery I have some time.

Sure, I would be glad to discuss/answer any questions you have. Make a new thread or send me a PM, whatever works for you.

 

[oceans]

More equipment equals more expenses.

More equipment equals more maintenance, more chances for equipment to need fixing which in turn means more money spent.

I imagine there’s small guy’s who are operating with just a truck and chipper or even truck and trailer and making the same if not more money without big equipment because less overhead.

I don’t offer stump grinding so I am not real familiar with the pricing, but I know not every tree company does stump grinding so if someone can focus only on doing stumps and is able to get enough work, I bet they could make a pretty decent profit without the added stress of running a big operation.

And it sure as heck would be less overhead.

I understand and agree with what you’re saying, but from my own experience, there’s another side to that story. If you’re trying to build a good repeat client base, and a great word of mouth referral, it’s paramount to keep your back log to a reasonable level.

You’ve also got to be able to respond to an emergency should that arise. It can be heart wrenching and even more stressful to be “behind” than to have some maintenance here and there.

There’s no silver bullet to this game, and seemingly unfathomable opportunities, so you have to decide what you want your life to be like and build around that. My model has idle equipment here and there. I can’t pull all the levers at once, but for efficiency’s sake, the levers are there when I need them. Run it smoothly and carefully, keep it clean, grease it and change the oil...good to go, yo!

 

[Sfoppema]

I’m able to do large emergency storm damage jobs or removal work just as bigger companies do

A pickup truck and dump trailer + two guys with no forwarding machine cannot accomplish large emergency storm damage jobs as a large company can.... Sure, a tree laying on the ground can be cleaned up easy enough, but what about a tree laying on a house? A mecanil or stick crane outfit could drive around and pull trees off of 10 houses in a day and just throw them on the ground. That's emergency work.

I have a decent amount of equipment, but no crane. I have come to the conclusion over the years not even to respond to emergency work, because I am not efficient at it. I go to the property, see the tree on the house, then try to get the crane company in on short notice. This never works. If I could say to the client, " I can have my crane here today and get the tree off the house right now for x..." then you are in business.

If I have an existing client that I care about who calls with an emergency, I will call another local tree company that I know and ask him as a favor to quickly get there, just so that my client knows that they can call me for all their tree needs. Me fumbling about dangerously and inefficiently trying to get a tree off of a house for probably a higher cost than my local competitors who have cranes is not good business, IMO.

 

[Sfoppema]

I'll add that under favorable circumstances which lend to my skillset and equipment, I can perform emergency work safely and efficiently. For the most part, a crane is the most efficient tool. I've tried to deny this over the years to help justify my not having one, but it is the truth.

 

[VenasNursery]

It boils down too

how much you wanna put in

how much do you want out of it

I have sacrificed my family and personal time to get what I have
Do I want more of course but I’m really happy so I’m scared to go much further than where I am
Happiness is priceless
But in the end I hope I have no regrets over family or taking the next step in business

TREE LIFE

 

[southsoundtree]

You're not able to do the same work with different equipment and crew.

You can get the same job done (remove one tree, for example) with different conditions. Many people want quick service.

A used $15-20k mini (or $30-40 new) will open doors faster than saving for a lift ($50-75k used, as a guess), unless a person isn't a good climber, and doesn't have to cleanup, IMO, in my market.

A lift can be difficult to get to many of my market's trees.


@climbingmonkey24 what makes you think lift over mini, specifically? Are you suggesting buying a super-spendy lift, and sticking to small/ medium pruning jobs?

 

[oceans]

I agree it depends on your niche and what kind of work / life balance you want. If you want to do large removals or do multiple jobs a day or per week, etc. then having larger equipment can absolutely help you make more money and decrease stress versus trying to do everything with less equipment or by manual labor.

At the same time, I think someone with minimal equipment can be just as efficient as a bigger crew that is running expensive fancy trucks and equipment, and still provide exceptional customer service and make good profit.

I operate with a medium sized hydraulic dump trailer and if the job calls for it a small chipper with a primary focus on pruning wth some emergency storm damage work and small-medium removals. But primarily I focus on pruning. I have one guy who helps me if I need it. No bobcat or mini. Everything dragged manually by hand. Customers like the fact that I don’t bring heavy equipment on the lawn and risk leaving indentations or causing damage.

I’m able to do large emergency storm damage jobs or removal work just as bigger companies do and I have no problem running a job into another day if needed. I also don’t mind if there are weeks I’m working 6-7 days per week. I do want to expand and accumulate some more equipment but very gradually while keeping my expenses in check.

Someone who wants to consistently do larger jobs, has employees to pay weekly and a lot of overhead has that pressure that they need to get more jobs done more quickly and ensure they are able to cover their monthly expenses, so I totally understand.

And I get the point about the backlog part. That all ties into your niche and what type of operation you are trying to run.

Find your place in the industry and build your business around that.

While we are talking about operations with bigger equipment versus smaller operations, for me personally one piece of equipment I am interested in is a spider lift.

There’s a bit of a myth that equipment means overhead. Personnel is the greatest overhead. If you work alone or with 1 or 2 hired hands long enough, you will come to the realization that your expense is already greater than a good piece of equipment...sometimes by a lot.

I’m not saying to deny people in favor of hydraulics. I’m saying that integrating the two makes a HUGE difference. This is why I bought a Spider Lift and a Spider Crane. It’s a true 1-2 punch for a small residential tree care business.