- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
I'm an old dog who works in a system populated by dinosaurs. Fortunately there are lots of young dogs filling the ranks. In time the up and out will drive the dinos to extinction.
Dog or dinosaur?
- Thread starter Tom Dunlap
- Start date
I think many in the tree industry are dinosaurs for a couple of reasons:
1) no interest in knowledge
2) I got away with it before
3) unfair competition
The most common reason I see for a lack of safety is money; I have to do it this way to make money. I think that unfair competition is one thing, but few of us are businessman, we are tree guys in some form. If we stopped talking about the latest knot and shiny piece of aluminum and concentrated more on business practices I wonder if H&S would improve as we make more money and realize we can afford such things.
Oh and I am a pangolin deep in the heart of the Okavango.
1) no interest in knowledge
2) I got away with it before
3) unfair competition
The most common reason I see for a lack of safety is money; I have to do it this way to make money. I think that unfair competition is one thing, but few of us are businessman, we are tree guys in some form. If we stopped talking about the latest knot and shiny piece of aluminum and concentrated more on business practices I wonder if H&S would improve as we make more money and realize we can afford such things.
Oh and I am a pangolin deep in the heart of the Okavango.
Tree-related injuries / fatalities involving landscapers / construction workers, etc. all get featured every month in the Accident Briefs in TCI Magazine. There about 10X the number of people employed as landscapers, vs tree workers (some unknown percentage of the former absolutely engage in treework). So, I don't know if it is really a blueberry pie that I'm being served in that TCI report, or some weird thing baked in a Betty Crocker oven. Pretty easy to distort statistics to serve a particular agenda. Is the "avg" TCI member company really any safer than the "avg" non-TCI member company? Maybe, certainly, probably, conceivably. Who knows? We would all like to think so.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
The stats are based on those accidents involving people being paid to perform the service. While the accident briefs include others they aren't part of this study. I checked and yes, Asplundh is a member. They have over 25,00 employees. Davey, 8000. I think that gives some credence to their stats. As mrtree pointed out the argument most small companies use to justify not investing in safety is cost. The average TCI member company is more likely to be one that invests in training, safety and other elements that lend themselves to being safer than the average non-member... Again, that is average which puts some well above this as well as below.
The underlying message that a company that invests in creating a more professional workplace tends to be safer is clear. How you go about it is entirely up to you. TCIA just happens to be the industry association that promotes this. It's going to be only as good as those who participate. If small companies don't find the time to get involved in large enough numbers than we lose our voice at the table.
As a side note, much of the bitching, pissing and moaning and general cynicism about TCIA and ISA that is spouted is not that different than any other industry or professional association. What is it that those that complain were expecting from them? Do they realize that the association is its members and what it does is driven by the voices of those members? Leave it in the hands of the few industry giants and they will have the greatest influence.
The underlying message that a company that invests in creating a more professional workplace tends to be safer is clear. How you go about it is entirely up to you. TCIA just happens to be the industry association that promotes this. It's going to be only as good as those who participate. If small companies don't find the time to get involved in large enough numbers than we lose our voice at the table.
As a side note, much of the bitching, pissing and moaning and general cynicism about TCIA and ISA that is spouted is not that different than any other industry or professional association. What is it that those that complain were expecting from them? Do they realize that the association is its members and what it does is driven by the voices of those members? Leave it in the hands of the few industry giants and they will have the greatest influence.
Merely being a member of ISA or TCIA (or others) and investing in H&S is not going to result in a safe workplace. You have to walk the talk and live the talk. There are lots of dinosaurs working in big, outwardly shiny, organizations, just as there are in small organizations.
On countless occasions I have encountered workers from good companies breaking rules and being anything but safe. An acquaintance fell off a six foot step ladder while trying to reach something at the 12 foot level; this after taking ladder safety training, unfortunately his workplace refused to provide a proper ladder. I have seen green and orange trucks with lots of safety stickers but workers defying the rules. Recently I was talking to a utility arborist, I have seen him climbing without a rope, now unemployed he claims he can call in a hold off anywhere.
What is the common denominator? Bad employees or employers? I think all have in common a cultural attitude where safety is not truly part of the culture. H&S has to be where education, knowledge, training and the rules are all used by each and every person to make each and every person safe. This may mean refusing work, rethinking work, or dropping the macho attitude and doing things better. What is does mean is that every person has to be invested in safety and they have to be encouraged to be a part of the solution each and every day.
On countless occasions I have encountered workers from good companies breaking rules and being anything but safe. An acquaintance fell off a six foot step ladder while trying to reach something at the 12 foot level; this after taking ladder safety training, unfortunately his workplace refused to provide a proper ladder. I have seen green and orange trucks with lots of safety stickers but workers defying the rules. Recently I was talking to a utility arborist, I have seen him climbing without a rope, now unemployed he claims he can call in a hold off anywhere.
What is the common denominator? Bad employees or employers? I think all have in common a cultural attitude where safety is not truly part of the culture. H&S has to be where education, knowledge, training and the rules are all used by each and every person to make each and every person safe. This may mean refusing work, rethinking work, or dropping the macho attitude and doing things better. What is does mean is that every person has to be invested in safety and they have to be encouraged to be a part of the solution each and every day.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Very true. It has to be acknowledged from the top to the bottom that safety takes precedence.
"Safety should never be a priority, it should be a pre-condition for organizational behavior." Paul O'Neil former CEO of ALCOA.
Here's a brief article about how he started at ALCOA as CEO. http://eazysafe.com/blog/safety-culture/believe-speech-safety-workplace-increase-companys-profits/
In another speech you can find on youtube he describes an incident 3 mths into his tenure where an 18 yr old employee died when he jumped a safety barrier to unjam a machine while two supervisors watched. He tells of bringing together all the executives and after doing a technical analysis he then tells them "We killed him." His attitude that safety is paramount and the efforts he made to create a safety conscious environment is incredible. While he achieved this he also quintupled income because of it. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-changing-one-habit-quintupled-alcoas-income-2014-4
So you want a profitable business, start with safety as a pre-condition then build out your organization from there.
"Safety should never be a priority, it should be a pre-condition for organizational behavior." Paul O'Neil former CEO of ALCOA.
Here's a brief article about how he started at ALCOA as CEO. http://eazysafe.com/blog/safety-culture/believe-speech-safety-workplace-increase-companys-profits/
In another speech you can find on youtube he describes an incident 3 mths into his tenure where an 18 yr old employee died when he jumped a safety barrier to unjam a machine while two supervisors watched. He tells of bringing together all the executives and after doing a technical analysis he then tells them "We killed him." His attitude that safety is paramount and the efforts he made to create a safety conscious environment is incredible. While he achieved this he also quintupled income because of it. http://www.businessinsider.com/how-changing-one-habit-quintupled-alcoas-income-2014-4
So you want a profitable business, start with safety as a pre-condition then build out your organization from there.
the bigger issue is the sheer number of accidents in our industry and the dinosaur mentality that impedes that 80% compliance and probably the common sense portion as well.
I read people saying I'm a dog everyone else is a dino. If you could share what the dinos are blocking us from very specifically you have all these well trained and trainable dogs here that can help. So fire away as soon as you have your list
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
Dino's do a few things to block us, their coworkers, the companies they work for and, the industry itself.
They cite these reasons why not:
Another key point he makes is: If there is a problem that could lead to any injury, fix it. Don't budget for it, just fix it.
This is how to open the channels to create a workplace that safety thrives in and consequently every other aspect of the business will follow.
This is a long video but well worth the time if you're serious about creating a great company for you and your people.
They cite these reasons why not:
- We can't afford it. Safety is expensive and takes time.
- Humans are incapable of being perfect, i.e., people will do dumb shit
- There's a natural rate and we can't do any better so why bother?
- I've made it this far without getting hurt.... badly.... or at least dead.... so we don't need to change.
- Are you treated with dignity and respect everyday, by everyone you encounter, every time?
- Are you given the tools, equipment, training and encouragement you need to make a contribution that gives meaning to your life?
- Do you get recognition for what you do?
Another key point he makes is: If there is a problem that could lead to any injury, fix it. Don't budget for it, just fix it.
This is how to open the channels to create a workplace that safety thrives in and consequently every other aspect of the business will follow.
This is a long video but well worth the time if you're serious about creating a great company for you and your people.
treehumper
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Ridgefield, NJ
In their best year they achieved 0.07/100. When this video was made their number was 0.126/100. Look at this another way. They have 59,000 employees which means they had in their best year 41 people injured badly enough to miss a day of work. That went up to 74 people.
Who wants to be those people? Who wants to be the people to tell their families?
Who wants to be those people? Who wants to be the people to tell their families?
