Cutting sequence for downed, dead oak leaning against another tree? With pics!!

[moss]

I took another look at the situation before talking to my friend, and came up with minimal risk plan that didn't involve a bunch of clearing underbrush.
View attachment 80857
I got a rope around the largest limb just to the left of the red line, pulled it back towards the camera, and secured it to a tree. I rigged up some mechanical advantage to get it really tight. Working from the far side with the pole saw, I made the cut, and the limb swung away from me as it fell. I got a rope over the upper end of the other limb, made some light cuts, and used the rope to break it off from a safe distance. With both limbs to the left of the red line are on the ground, I got a rope on the outer end of the third limb just before the rain started.

Those two cuts revealed sound wood with no signs of rot. I'm confident the trunk is in good shape, too.

My plan is to make some light cuts on the third limb, and break it off from a distance with the rope, leaving the crotch intact. The far side of the crotch is really sturdy, and it will keep the trunk from coming toward me while I'm cutting the stub of the third limb near the bottom of the crotch. There's just enough room to get the blade of the pole saw up there so I can saw outward and away from the supporting tree. At some point the stub will peel away, the crotch will open up, and the trunk will move down and away from me.

There's nothing solid below the trunk to fly around, and I don't see anything high up in the supporting tree that's likely to fall.

I'm thinking the stub will remain attached, but it won't be heavy enough to hurt me if it does come off. I'll be wearing my helmet just in case. The forecast is good for today, so hopefully I'll be able to post a picture of the trunk on the ground later.

It looks like (as much as I can tell from the photos) that the fallen oak is pretty well jammed in there and the holding tree is pushed back a few inches at least and will hold it tight. May or may not release when you trim out the last holding limb. The slightest remaining nub can keep everything from moving.

Generally for that situation I will climb the vertical tree and work from there above the "action". Great care is taken to redirect the tail of the climbing line away from the work area and drop zone or coil and secure it above the work area.

Good luck!
-AJ

 

[Winchman]

Well, my plan didn't work worth a flip. I got the third limb off, and started cutting inside the crotch. I kept cutting, and then switched to cutting from the outside. Finally the stub flexed a little, and the trunk LIFTED UP about ten inches.

Removing the top of the tree must have relieved almost all the pressure on the crotch. The stump must be anchored much better than I thought to hold up the weight of the trunk so far out at a 70 degree angle. Surprise, surprise.

And now I've created this new situation, and it's just as dangerous to deal with. If I cut the trunk where I can get to it from the ground, the crotch will catch on that tree again. It's probably stable enough to work from a ladder leaned against it with some lashing for sure, and I could cut short chunks that would fall to the ground. As much as I dislike working from a ladder, that may be the best option.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

Well, my plan didn't work worth a flip. I got the third limb off, and started cutting inside the crotch. I kept cutting, and then switched to cutting from the outside. Finally the stub flexed a little, and the trunk LIFTED UP about ten inches.
View attachment 80863
Removing the top of the tree must have relieved almost all the pressure on the crotch. The stump must be anchored much better than I thought to hold up the weight of the trunk so far out at a 70 degree angle. Surprise, surprise.

And now I've created this new situation, and it's just as dangerous to deal with. If I cut the trunk where I can get to it from the ground, the crotch will catch on that tree again. It's probably stable enough to work from a ladder leaned against it with some lashing for sure, and I could cut short chunks that would fall to the ground. As much as I dislike working from a ladder, that may be the best option.

I love these minesweeper tasks. Eliminate every variable possible. Make a final cut and watch a lot of potential energy get released.

Given the last photo… I would climb into the tree it is rubbing on, and make a very flush cut on the stub that is on the right side of the photo. Then, depending on what is going on that I can’t see here, fell the tree with a notch that steers it slightly away from this rubbing tree.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

As others have mentioned this can be a real crazy task in the air. Here’s one I did a few years ago and got a good slo mo of. Eliminated all the canopy on this sizeable oak and was left with this cut to make. Made a large notch on the compression side (which was the top side) and finished gingerly on the bottom side. And the stem and chunk piece all crashed to the ground.

The tail of your rope should be coiled up and at your head level. It’s the one time you doing want your tail below you.

 

[moss]

Well, my plan didn't work worth a flip. I got the third limb off, and started cutting inside the crotch. I kept cutting, and then switched to cutting from the outside. Finally the stub flexed a little, and the trunk LIFTED UP about ten inches.
View attachment 80863
Removing the top of the tree must have relieved almost all the pressure on the crotch. The stump must be anchored much better than I thought to hold up the weight of the trunk so far out at a 70 degree angle. Surprise, surprise.

And now I've created this new situation, and it's just as dangerous to deal with. If I cut the trunk where I can get to it from the ground, the crotch will catch on that tree again. It's probably stable enough to work from a ladder leaned against it with some lashing for sure, and I could cut short chunks that would fall to the ground. As much as I dislike working fromia ladder, that may be the best option.

That’s kind of awesome actually, nice “light” energy release if it lifts. As mentioned great opportunity to set a line in the vertical tree, take out more off the end so you can drop it cleanly and safely from the base of the fallen tree.
-AJ

 

[Winchman]

And here's the picture of the trunk safely on the ground I've been wanting to post:

It rotated 180 degrees as it fell, and that's a caution for anyone thinking doing something like this. Expect the unexpected. I'm glad I was far away near the other end protected by two sturdy trees.

Before using a ladder against the trunk, I felt obligated to look at the whole tree, and fought my way to the far end. Here's the stump in the bank of the stream.

Close to the end I found some bark missing which exposed some rotting wood. Forget about using the ladder.

Fortunately there was a pair of trees about eight feet apart alongside the trunk where it was about two feet off the ground. It was the perfect place for making horizontal spear cuts. There was no way the tree could come my way. I didn't get the angle right because my saw is only 18", but I was able to break up and remove a short piece. That let the trunk come my way and rotate 180 degrees as it fell.

I would have missed out on some good experience if I had bailed on this one. My friend and I are both happy with the way it turned out. She wants to leave it as habitat now that it's safe and she doesn't have to see the dead limbs up in the air.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

I didn't get the angle right because my saw is only 18”

This is a common safety issue I see a lot. it is so much safer to have a bar long enough to make a proper cut at a proper working angle.

I’m really glad it worked out for you. I’m glad you’ve learned some things about it. You have a good head on your shoulders for problem solving. But I also highly recommend working with experienced folks in the future when you get to something like this again.

Consider the death of a 23 year old yesterday with a competent crew and new chipper. Gone in an instant. There are fatality reports often when someone is pinned under a tree. This problem you just solved, this is just such a situation that could easily prove deadly.

If you were my friend and an arborist of many years, and you did this job without anyone around to help you, I would be very angry… it’s so much safer to have two pairs of eyes and two brains and a hand on the ground or on a tag line.

Don’t let the pursuit of ‘experience’ prematurely send you to the great beyond.

 

[Winchman]

I used to work as an engineer overseeing assembly and testing of large solid propellant missiles. We almost always had a couple hundred thousand pounds of high explosives in the building, and we could hardly ever work solo. At any moment, a young security guard could, and often did, pop in unannounced, and order us to lie on the floor at gunpoint. Now, that's dangerous.

After twenty years of that, and despite the added risk, I really, really enjoy doing things by myself. And I'd say climbing/tree work is one of the least dangerous and most enjoyable things I've done for work or play.

 

[colb]

Whatever the plan, I'd spend considerable time pondering what could possibly go wrong.

This.

I sawed a limb off a dead oak once and the 10 ft. stub rotated off the ground towards vertical. Turned out some buried chainlink fence had been holding it under force to the ground and my cut released that force. Don't assume much...

Why not leave it there?

Can you hinge the butt area sideways and down then release the back cut with a pole saw? Make it fold in half to decrease the length and thus unstick the crotch from the tree?

 

[colb]

This.

I sawed a limb off a dead oak once and the 10 ft. stub rotated off the ground towards vertical. Turned out some buried chainlink fence had been holding it under force to the ground and my cut released that force. Don't assume much...

Why not leave it there?

Can you hinge the butt area sideways and down then release the back cut with a pole saw? Make it fold in half to decrease the length and thus unstick the crotch from the tree?

Sorry, I did not read to the most recent posts! Disregard... Good work!

 

[Winchman]

Remember that stub I spent so much time cutting on?

It broke right off when the trunk started down, and that let it flip clear of the other tree. That saved some bark, and kept me from having to make more cuts. No wasted effort there.

I rounded up new project on the way home from this one. The entire top twenty feet of a tree broke, and it's hanging into an elderly couple's yard. The gentleman was so pleased when I offered to cut it loose and clean it up for free.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

...so pleased when I offered to cut it loose and clean it up for free.

No loss of integrity to get a reward for your risk and skill.

 

[Winchman]

Maybe people will be nice to me when I'm old. Wait...I'm already old, and people are nice to me. They let me play in their yards and climb their trees. And post stuff on their forum, too.