Cool, I am curious to see how specific it is to exactly who is liable for what. Seems like the wording will be tough because of how closely the climber and crane op must work.
Crane accident...
- Thread starter Mark Chisholm
- Start date
flyingsquirrel25
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- South East, PA
using Operators that are experienced in tree removal is a key. Construction operators have no business picking trees. As a company owner, climber and having operated before, this incident sucks. A young climber is dead, and the operator needs to live with that no mater who’s fault. We are fortunate, we work with the most experienced ”tree” crane operators around. Most were climbers for a while before moving to the seat. And if not they have had mentors for years who have given them the skills to provide the service. I have an understanding with the company, leave the construction guys out of our rotation. I’ll wait if need be.
We work together to make sure things go smoothly and efficiently. No arguments, everyone has a say. If something goes sideways we all share the responsibility. I could care less about the financial side, the insurance companies are going to fight it out anyway. Im talking the mental responsibility. I can’t even fathom how that op feels.
Im sorry for this loss, we need young guys in the industry.
Rest in peace!
We work together to make sure things go smoothly and efficiently. No arguments, everyone has a say. If something goes sideways we all share the responsibility. I could care less about the financial side, the insurance companies are going to fight it out anyway. Im talking the mental responsibility. I can’t even fathom how that op feels.
Im sorry for this loss, we need young guys in the industry.
Rest in peace!
cerviarborist
Very stable member
- Location
- Florida, USA
Bear in mind that just because it's written in a contract, doesn't necessarily make it enforceable. A lot of hold harmless verbiage really amounts to a polite request that one party not sue the other party in case something goes sideways. Once an incident occurs, litigation is rarely polite. The conditions and restraints in a written contract have to actually be legally enforceable...to be enforceable.
dbl612
Participating member
- Location
- torrington, ct.
no need for rating required. they are a catch point for the sling only, no different than a protruding branch or nub
dbl612
Participating member
- Location
- torrington, ct.
its kind of important to realize there is no training for tree crane guys or construction crane guys. its all about mentoring and experience. in all reality, a construction crane operator with demolition experience is a good bet as they are basically doing the same work. in both tree removal and demo, the dynamics of movement is the same, one the load is cut free and the crane owns it. in all conditions the op really has the most responsibility. he should have a good idea what the material weighs, direct proper and safe rigging practices, know the working limitations of his crane, and above all else, the safety of the job site is mainly in his hands, because the has the most control of the job functions. if the climber isn't comfy or has a question, it should be discussed before proceeding. if the climber isn't happy, he should say noad the job will stop until everyone is in agreement and understanding of the risk factors. regarding the discussion of applying a half hitch, it is not good practice because it cuts the vertical lift capacity of the sling used in half, a much greater reduction than a choker hitch. the sling will fail at the half hitch junction before the choker hitch fails.
My condolences to the climber's family friends and coworkers, very sad indeed.
Having worked with an inhouse crane for many many years, and a wide range of big cranes from 75 to 300 ton hydrocranes over 40 years at this.
The fault falls on the climber IMHO.
There are plenty of amateur CO's who don't belong anywhere near a big tree, and if you play this game long enuff, you'll almost inevitably bump into one.
The question's do you value your life enuff to tell him to fold up his crane n get the fug off the jobsite?
Had I done that very thing twice, actually three times, Id've saved myself a world of hurt n professional embarrassment.
Working with cranes, particularly big one's, creates unique hazards that demand emergency escape routes being planned for, unencumbered, and accessible in an instant.
You don't want to ever be trapped in place with no means of escape.
Personally I've shunned synthetic rigging my whole career, unless used specifically to insulate the crane when in proximity to bare energized lines.
I like wire rope n clevises just fine thank you, no bouncy bouncy, no energy stored in the rigging, fug that.
A local crane Corp here paid all my medical bills when their CO ignored my specific instructions not to brush any live trees with any picks, even though doing so meant him rotating 300 degrees to do so, we had time, there was no rush.
But the young punk CO fresh from Alabama, got tired of rotating such distances, used the end of his boom to knock the single live limb encumbering us off completely, no more rotating, on the big trunk pick.
Unaware that he'd knocked the cotter pin off a steel bar at the end of his boom, he rotated the boom over me on the trunk, but stopping rotation caused the steel bar to slide outta the boom sideways, then fall about fifty feet before hitting me on the left shoulder, fracturing my clavicle into kindling, that had to be reconstructed on titanium plate, curved to match the bone.
It's your life dang it, protect it as zealously n loudly as necessary.
It's his fault for workin with a flakey CO.
Firing folks n kickin em off job sites can save lives IMO.
Jemco
Having worked with an inhouse crane for many many years, and a wide range of big cranes from 75 to 300 ton hydrocranes over 40 years at this.
The fault falls on the climber IMHO.
There are plenty of amateur CO's who don't belong anywhere near a big tree, and if you play this game long enuff, you'll almost inevitably bump into one.
The question's do you value your life enuff to tell him to fold up his crane n get the fug off the jobsite?
Had I done that very thing twice, actually three times, Id've saved myself a world of hurt n professional embarrassment.
Working with cranes, particularly big one's, creates unique hazards that demand emergency escape routes being planned for, unencumbered, and accessible in an instant.
You don't want to ever be trapped in place with no means of escape.
Personally I've shunned synthetic rigging my whole career, unless used specifically to insulate the crane when in proximity to bare energized lines.
I like wire rope n clevises just fine thank you, no bouncy bouncy, no energy stored in the rigging, fug that.
A local crane Corp here paid all my medical bills when their CO ignored my specific instructions not to brush any live trees with any picks, even though doing so meant him rotating 300 degrees to do so, we had time, there was no rush.
But the young punk CO fresh from Alabama, got tired of rotating such distances, used the end of his boom to knock the single live limb encumbering us off completely, no more rotating, on the big trunk pick.
Unaware that he'd knocked the cotter pin off a steel bar at the end of his boom, he rotated the boom over me on the trunk, but stopping rotation caused the steel bar to slide outta the boom sideways, then fall about fifty feet before hitting me on the left shoulder, fracturing my clavicle into kindling, that had to be reconstructed on titanium plate, curved to match the bone.
It's your life dang it, protect it as zealously n loudly as necessary.
It's his fault for workin with a flakey CO.
Firing folks n kickin em off job sites can save lives IMO.
Jemco
climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
Was this Jerry?
The last part is key to me: the crane op directed everything (size/weight, sling placement...and then having it moved down, and the cut point.
Should have the climber known better, yes. But in my opinion fault mostly lays on crane op since he was directing. Anyone can stop a lift, but crane op is the only one who can say give weight/piece to me...unless it is a blind pick. Especially considering this was trunk wood, not limbs that needed balancing.
Reach
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Atglen, PA
Yes, this is Jerry. We rarely use anyone else, he’s too good, we’ve been spoiled by him.
cerviarborist
Very stable member
- Location
- Florida, USA
First, I'm glad that you recovered from your incident and injury. Having said that, I think your anecdote though may not be a real apples-to-apples comparison to the incident which caused the fatality. It sounds as though your situation involved a deeply experienced climber with a green CO who further wouldn't follow instructions, whereas the originally noted incident seems to have involved what was perceived by an inexperienced climber as a deeply experienced CO and someone from whom they should take instruction and direction. Like many incidents in this line of work, a big problem is that you don't know what you don't know. If you're trying to mitigate your lack of knowledge by hiring an expert to work with you and keep you safe, then that hired expert literally has your life in their hands.
Watch Aug's latest video and it'll illustrate just how important it is to remain vigilant with cranes.
I specifically recommended Aug getting a Crosby Shur-Loc swivel hook when he bought his crane about a year ago, but I guess the cost was too much for him.
Had his climber not noticed that Aug punching through the canopy dislocated all the rigging on the hook to where it hung on the hook gate alone?
It could have easily resulted in yet another dead climber in tree related crane accident.
That Crosby Shur-Loc hook guarantees Murphy's law can't kill yu.
If you run an inhouse crane in this biz without a Shur-Loc hook?
It's just a matter of time before Murphy'll fug with yu, when you least expect it.
Jemco
I specifically recommended Aug getting a Crosby Shur-Loc swivel hook when he bought his crane about a year ago, but I guess the cost was too much for him.
Had his climber not noticed that Aug punching through the canopy dislocated all the rigging on the hook to where it hung on the hook gate alone?
It could have easily resulted in yet another dead climber in tree related crane accident.
That Crosby Shur-Loc hook guarantees Murphy's law can't kill yu.
If you run an inhouse crane in this biz without a Shur-Loc hook?
It's just a matter of time before Murphy'll fug with yu, when you least expect it.
Jemco
- Location
- Seattle
deevo
Been here a while
- Location
- Horseshoe Valley, Ontario, Canada
That’s also why you shouldn‘t be tying into the hook, that’s where your lanyard goes and tie in point with a friction saver goes above. Always be tied in twice. He also runs a 2 part line for some reason. Don’t know why, but for a crane that size should be running a single part line, use the block for heavy lifting. It’s also a lot slower using a 2 part line.
this is a new friction saver we are trying from Gap arborist supply, our climbers then run their lanyard through the shackle. Sorry for the sideways pic. it’s a super smooth setup.
Last edited:
- Location
- Home of the New Jersey Devils
I'd be interested to see how that pulley deals with possible snacks from the hook. My initial thought is that it could get dinged and maybe damaged over the course of the year. Keep us posted.
treebilly
Branched out member
- Location
- N. Lawrence
I’m not sure I like that set up @deevo. At least it’s below the ball but I think it will get pretty beat up as Mark stated. Also stuffing a spliced eye through there could get annoying. I guess if it causes a guy to slow down and pay attention it could be a good thing but I prefer the big rings
Steve Connally
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Suffolk, Virginia
I see no issues. I use a single DMM ring on mine. The a stitched eye may need a little encouragement to come out but I don't see it taking a horrible beating. Guess it depends on how wild the crane operator is with the ball.
deevo
Been here a while
- Location
- Horseshoe Valley, Ontario, Canada
You bet will do. We do 75% Crane removals so it’ll will get a good test. Has been good all week so far, have done 14 ash tree removals this week, and pulleys got no signs of wear.
deevo
Been here a while
- Location
- Horseshoe Valley, Ontario, Canada
time will tell, not sure what you mean about the splices. It’s well built and rated, not some home made jobbie, Gap Arborist supply @SuperK did an awesome job making it.
deevo
Been here a while
- Location
- Horseshoe Valley, Ontario, Canada
I run the crane 50% of the time and my other operators the other, we are pretty careful and smooth operators.
treebilly
Branched out member
- Location
- N. Lawrence
@deevo
I mean when you’re hooking in and untiring from the crane. How easy is it to pass the sewn or spliced eye through the pinto?
I mean when you’re hooking in and untiring from the crane. How easy is it to pass the sewn or spliced eye through the pinto?
