Compact Bulldog Bone

Willber said:
Well, @Reg I feel you are being a bit harsh towards Gordon's choice, of how he has decided to offer the BDB.
I think we all (at least a few) stand by the adages of "treat others as you would like to be treated" and "put yourself in another's shoes, before offering criticism"

But, I cannot assure you you'd be treated better, had your approach been more appeasing to this crowd.
When I inquired about an ideal arborist rope, referencing a rope I liked that needed improvement, I was quickly ridiculed. Though later, someone came across the very rope I referenced, touting its qualities,
and inquires about it were welcomed, with great interest by others.

It's not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes.
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Thanks For your feelings and thoughts Wilber. Yes I treat everyone how I'd like to be treated. Straight questions deserve Straight answers. No circling or avoiding. Its that simple. Saves so much time. And, I've been in Gordons shoes, so I understand the lure to cut corners and save money.

As for crowds, evidently I don't care about that kind of thing. And neither should you. If a sentence starts with 'us' or 'we', I just don't take that person seriously.
 
John_KAYS said:
Reg, I understand that you are coming from a place of concern and wellbeing for our industry. Safety shouldn’t be ignored, but regularly an arborist must make calculations with unrated anchors and structures to judge the risks involved…take any tree for example. Anyone that has held a BDB in their hands can judge for themselves the very inspectable parts and robust simple design.
It isn’t for everyone. Depending on your company, you might not be able to climb with devices that do not have a stamp on them.
I have been MIA from Tree buzz for some time, and haven’t been following the threads for a while. Great to have you back Reg! I respect where you are coming from. You must be living and breathing this issue with where you are at with your device. I appreciate you looking to help others with the knowledge you have become well versed in. I am not writing to change your mind, but merely to help you understand the legend that is the Compact BullDog Bone. The climbers that use it understand that it hasn’t been rated, just like the anchors we climb on every day. There is a risk, but the risk is also there climbing on a rated device as well. Anything can happen. We make calculated decisions…I’m sure we have all been guilty of climbing past the date on our harness after inspection demonstrates it’s still functioning and the parts are all still good. I am just as aware and inspect a Rope Runner, Akimbo, zigzag, etc. when ever I’m climbing on one of those devices. I don’t take anything for granted just because it has a stamp on it…and I’m not saying the stamp isn’t important.

Thanks for your concern!
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Hello John. Don't loose sight of how I entered the thread. It wasn't to discuss safety, liability, testing insurance etc. That info surfaced after I was asking why no website, no availability in stores nor clear and legit point of contact. But none of it was volunteered by the person at the center of it all.

Im not a rules and safety guy on a worksite by any stretch of the imagination. But I have a lot of experience and exposure to base a decisions on, and never loose site of what's at stake.

But when it comes to producing equipment, I wear an entirely different cap. Because it comes with exponentially more responsibility. The equipment is going to fall into the hands of all kinds of individuals and levels of skill. Many don't appreciate their limitations or that of the equipment. You have to assume that.

Safety protocol and Industry Standards in relation to equipment, in particular life support equipment, are not perfect. But they are in place to protect everyone through the supply chain down to the end user, and their families too. Design and manufacturing faults or oversights will still happen. But at least everyone is still protected.

I do wonder if Notch or R.E started selling only un certified climbing equipment i.e. climbing device, harnesses and ropes, with the condition that the purchaser must sign a waiver.....whether Gordon's supporters would be cool with that too ? My guess is that there would be outrage And a boycott.

Cutting these corners to save money is a bridge too far for me. Somebody even touched on how to avoid paying an orphaned child compensation earlier. Unsurprisingly it was ignored or made a joke of. Don't think the kid would be laughing. Treebuzz is a very small pond of discussions, put in context. Used to be a lot bigger, but people eventually move on with their lives and many other internet platform have since captured the lions share or related discussions. But I would a assume there's still a portion on non-member who browse through the threads, hopefully without bias or favoritism. They will read this thread and hopefully it will give them food for thought. Something good will come out of it.
 
Njdelaney said:
The idea that you "deserve" an answer in this context is problematic. You can ask a question and express a feeling if you don't get an answer you like, but you're not entitled to an answer.
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I was asked about treating people how I like to be treated. People staying on point and answering simple questions is the same standard I hold myself to. I don't think it's a lot to ask.
 
colb said:
I think it's important to hold the idea of treating people how they wanted to be treated alongside how I want to be treated.
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Ok, well, give me some examples. Don't generalize. Give me some examples of these last few pages where you think someone has been mistreated and by whom ? Thanks
 
I have a great idea @Reg. Since you've made it clear that your input on the BDB is offered as help, why don't you borrow one from a Buzzer here and spend a couple hours using it and trying to find problems or ways to improve it? I bet Gordon may even send you one as a tester. If you spent as much time using it as you have spent being active on this thread, something actually useful may come out of your involvement. If you want to help, help. I'm anticipating an answer about how many irons of your own you already have in the fire, but the amount of time you've already spent on this thread would certainly have been better utilized collaboratively.
 
Njdelaney said:
I have a great idea @Reg. Since you've made it clear that your input on the BDB is offered as help, why don't you borrow one from a Buzzer here and spend a couple hours using it and trying to find problems or ways to improve it? I bet Gordon may even send you one as a tester. If you spent as much time using it as you have spent being active on this thread, something actually useful may come out of your involvement. If you want to help, help. I'm anticipating an answer about how many irons of your own you already have in the fire, but the amount of time you've already spent on this thread would certainly have been better utilized collaboratively.
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If that post meant with sarcasm, then it's lame. If not then I'll answer it. I've probably made, what, a dozen posts our of the 5000+. I would guess my posts have taken 45 minutes to compose, in total. How many posts have you made ?

Also, if you are anticipating me to answer that Im too busy to use look at, use, or make suggestions on how to improve the device. Why are you asking me ? Seriously, why did you ask me ?

Because when you put it in such a way, it sounds like BS afterall.

If someone were to send me a unit on the grounds of improvement. Then you'd have to be more specific on what needs to be addressed or improved. The general consensus here seems to be that it needs nothing. Nor the business model.

Do you personally see flaws in its performance or something associated on the whole. Because this is your idea, and yours alone.

To me it's not different than a tree service customer. They first have to tell me what the problem is that they are trying to solve. They don't just invite me to a property full of trees and say "just make it all better".

Yes, life is also busy and stressful for me too. But I always make time to help people who are genuine.
 
Reg said:
If someone were to send me a unit on the grounds of improvement. Then you'd have to be more specific on what needs to be addressed or improved. The general consensus here seems to be that it needs nothing. Nor the business model.

Do you personally see flaws in its performance or something associated on the whole. Because this is your idea, and yours alone.
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For me there were 2 non negotiable areas where the BDB fell flat.

1. Tending slack. I can get a Wrench, a Runner, a HHXF, or a Zag/Wrench combo to gobble up slack, but I could never get the BDB to come close to doing what I needed it to do in this department...

2. MRS- I found it damn near unusable in MRS

And despite the fact that the BDB lacks any certification and looks homemade it is priced like a device that has gone through the rigorous and expensive R & D, testing, and certification processes.

There I said it. Flame on gentlemen.
 
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rico said:
Flame on gentlemen.
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No.....
Each of us have our own preferences. What works wonders for one is a PITA for another. It's why there are so many different devices available, and different styles of climbing. We all have our niche and what works, as well as, what doesn't.

Without all that, life would be quite boring.
 
I was not being sarcastic. As for needing to be told the problem in order to help, you're the one who has a problem with the way the BDB exists in the world, not me, so that is for you to express and potentially help address, or just act self-righteous about if that's what suits you. As for the price Eric, the obvious reason is that it is made to order in small batches by one person. The economy of scale makes it necessary for it to cost that much, which I'm sure you understand. Gordon doesn't have a factory banging out thousands of units and buying materials in large batches to meet a demand created by lots of advertising dollars. The slack tending issue is an aside, and not really related to the current debate but a valid part of your decision. I don't have one myself, yet, so I'm an impartial observer to this discussion(although I do have another device of Gordon's and an RC Grapple), but have had a hard time staying out of what looks like you policing someone else's conduct, be it Gordon bumping a thread on the one place his device gets advertised or not doing enough due diligence to ensure a device is safe in YOUR opinion @Reg , which seems out of step with the image you put forth to the world of minding your own house and not worrying about other people's conduct.
 
Njdelaney said:
I was not being sarcastic. As for needing to be told the problem in order to help, you're the one who has a problem with the way the BDB exists in the world, not me, so that is for you to express and potentially help address, or just act self-righteous about if that's what suits you. As for the price Eric, the obvious reason is that it is made to order in small batches by one person. The economy of scale makes it necessary for it to cost that much, which I'm sure you understand. Gordon doesn't have a factory banging out thousands of units and buying materials in large batches to meet a demand created by lots of advertising dollars. The slack tending issue is an aside, and not really related to the current debate but a valid part of your decision. I don't have one myself, yet, so I'm an impartial observer to this discussion(although I do have another device of Gordon's and an RC Grapple), but have had a hard time staying out of what looks like you policing someone else's conduct, be it Gordon bumping a thread on the one place his device gets advertised or not doing enough due diligence to ensure a device is safe in YOUR opinion @Reg , which seems out of step with the image you put forth to the world of minding your own house and not worrying about other people's conduct.
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Hey, Im just cooking dinner, and then I have to walk the dog. I'll get back to you later
 
No worries. It's a holiday weekend here in the states and we're doing some backyard camping here in Detroit. We've probably both got better things to do haha
 
Njdelaney said:
I was not being sarcastic. As for needing to be told the problem in order to help, you're the one who has a problem with the way the BDB exists in the world, not me, so that is for you to express and potentially help address, or just act self-righteous about if that's what suits you. As for the price Eric, the obvious reason is that it is made to order in small batches by one person. The economy of scale makes it necessary for it to cost that much, which I'm sure you understand. Gordon doesn't have a factory banging out thousands of units and buying materials in large batches to meet a demand created by lots of advertising dollars. The slack tending issue is an aside, and not really related to the current debate but a valid part of your decision. I don't have one myself, yet, so I'm an impartial observer to this discussion(although I do have another device of Gordon's and an RC Grapple), but have had a hard time staying out of what looks like you policing someone else's conduct, be it Gordon bumping a thread on the one place his device gets advertised or not doing enough due diligence to ensure a device is safe in YOUR opinion @Reg , which seems out of step with the image you put forth to the world of minding your own house and not worrying about other people's conduct.
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Ok. I'll try to be nice with this answer. I mean, I am nice, but I'll try to sound nice and not so pointed.

Firstly, there's no emotion here whatsoever. Nor has there been through the previous posts. I think if understand that then it might read differently. If we were instead talking face to face, you'd be very comfortable and know Im not your enemy, and that everything is above board.

The posts are not motivated by any such feeling of self righteousness. I respond as accurately as possible to any such posts that are aimed at me. I read the details of the posts or questions and try to answer from experiences that Im willing to share and facts that I know to the best of my knowledge. I try not to meander or deviate from that template.

Others do, and try to put words in my mouth that I didn't say, emotions I haven't felt, and thoughts that I don't think. When I call them out on this they either disappear, or just say something else without actually answering.

Still being nice here, no emotion, sticking to the facts.

A little about my background. I was raised by an Irishman, a Dubliner. You didn't bullshit, because you wouldn't get away with it, ever. Not just for fearing the wrath of the Irishman, but from the Devil too. That gets drilled into you from the moment you become receptive of words.

On a positive note there was always a great attention and appreciation for detail. Irish people are often wonderful story tellers in that sense, whether in the context of joy or sadness. Its in the detail.

The flipside is ever present potential to make people feel uncomfortable, in the desire to fill in the blanks and being unaccepting of inconsistencies, or things that don't add up. It can truly be a disaster for relationships, I can attest to that. Even though it comes purely in search of the truth, which is Nobel in sentiment, but can just as easily be destructive in outcome.

At the risk of repeating myself, I didn't like the way Gordon put a negative slant on those devices to promote his own. And I explained why, don't make me explain it again.

The talking points changed or varied thereafter. Details emerged that probably weren't supposed to, and they too became points of contention. Instead of just letting it go, other members kept resurrecting me with question, when it really wasn't necessary. 3 more today much the same, for example, you included. I have to respond or answer, because that's what I do, as Ive explained. If my answers annoy people, then they probably shouldn't keep bringing me back into it. But you notice throughout, I read people's words and stay on point.

As for the image I portray to the world. Im not sure what you mean by that. Treebuzz has, what, 20-30 regular viewers? Hardly the world. Or do you mean YouTube ? My activity there pales in comparison to most other tree video makers. Ive covered a wide range of situations there, to good effect I think. But I don't believe in just highlighting the same stuff over and over. It gets boring both for me and them. But the point is, they watch me for the treework, and not for what comes out of my mouth.

I hope that clears up any misconceptions you might have.

And thankyou, for buying the grapple, and giving it a chance. A simple but helpful accessory I hope. If you ever have any issues or questions, you can email me here regcoates1@aol.com
 
I recall a bunch of years ago an anecdote about someone rapping fast out of a tree, stopping above ground and then having their device melt the rope, dropping them. One of Reg's cited standards mentions a 25' pull test IIRC to do with exactly that effect. 25' isn't a big descent but at least it's a kick at the can. Due to the anecdote my un-named multiscender device had big heat dissipation and I was comfortable hammering it with hard fast stops. It was like driving a sports car, feather touch for big power. Ghostice's post showed that rock face and cavers are aware of the rap/heat issue. Makes you want to be cautious about a Munter.

Animated discussion. Love how the autocorrect snafus other people besides me.

edit - reread the standard it was pull 50 m rope through the device two times check for heating or damage. oops my bad (memory). more substantial kick at the can
 
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I appreciate the background info for context. I myself am of Irish descent(last name is Delaney) so there's a good bit of what you describe that resonates with me. I was speaking about your YouTube presence when referencing image. I would challenge your statement about there being no emotion in your words. When you say "I didn't like the way....." that is indeed an emotional reaction, which you acted on. Without emotions, feelings, notions, or whatever word you're most comfortable using, we wouldn't be human beings. I'll leave it there on this debate as I feel there's not much more I have to offer this discussion but feel free to add more or respond as you see fit. I love Sockeye, it's the best Salmon to eat, but I have no cold hard facts to back this up, only emotions(now THAT was a joke).
 
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