Come a long, or something else?

all of those tools and techniques are good, they all have their place, and they all have their drawbacks.

I have the utmost respect for Mr. Hall, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the truck to pull or move something heavy, if the circumstances allowed it.
 
A proper notch and back-cut, along with a couple of guys to start the tree pulled over center, should do the trick.

If you need more pull, tie a bowline on a bite and suck it up with your help!

You only need enough pull to get the tree started. Your hinge wood(if you did it right) will steer the tree the rest of the way.
 
[ QUOTE ]

How about the force required to bend the hinge wood?

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. I usually ignore that as it seems to be small compared to the torque caused by the lean. The other mistake I made in my overly quick calculation was getting the center-of-mass offset wrong. It's the distance from the center of mass to the hinge that matters, not the distance to the edge of the stump. Haste makes waste...

Probably almost no one runs through a quick numerical calculation for something like this, but for a beginner like me it is a good substitute for experience. Plus, numerical methods extend easily to any rigging problem, even new or complicated ones where a person might have no relevant experience.
 
[ QUOTE ]

We are professionals. We don't use cars and trucks to pull over trees. We don't use chipper winches either.

[/ QUOTE ]

I apologize for the tone of my earlier post, which seems, on re-reading, a bit flip and disrespectful. I certainly meant no disrespect. I was also unaware that pulling trees with vehicles was contrary to any professional standards.

The local arborist where I live, who has been in business over 35 years, and whom I have observed and even worked for on numerous occasions, always pulls trees with a vehicle if he needs to fall them contrary to the lay. He does set up 2:1 MA systems for really big trees sometimes, but he still uses his truck to pull them over. Moreover, he uses nothing but stretchy nylon bull lines for the purpose. Sometimes he drives the truck to pull the tree, as one would have to do with a polyester rope, but other times he preloads the rope by putting 6 or 8 feet of stretch into the rope with the truck. With the brakes set, he then finishes the back cut and watches, smiling, as the nylon line smartly pulls the tree over.
 
i go with Center-of-Maas/gravity to compressed part of hinge for angle of lean. With no dutching, you can generally , easily forensically read the hinge pulls, to check where you thought the Center of Maas(CG) was(so can L-earn more about your perceptions etc. but also read and L-earn from other's hinges etc.). The compressed portion will be closest to lean/CG. The farthest stretched/ripped/highest rooster tail will be opposing. The math will be input leveraged load X distance X Angle(across hinge from compressed portion to tensioned portion)= pull on tension fibers (kinda). Sometimes the rooster tail will be to far side, sometimes more inward of center; as Nature picks the maximum inline force and distance. The line pulls should show up too.

Truck to me is a tool; and also portable power. With good traction, fair weight you can do sum things with it. i think it is safer to inspect run, use trustworthy vehicle, good driver , coordinated with all else, have weight loaded in back and best to have a pulley on lower anchor as redirect(though this can defect line angle of pull on target). This is so that as the vehicle moves forward, the line angle doesn't 'lighten' / pull up on the rear. Biggest problems i've had is scared drivers that don't realize that all they have to do is usher a tipping of a tree, and not realize how much power a truck X 50' of lever has. Easy, metered force is generally better IMLHO. Also, easier to nudge rope out with truck, quicker to get in their for bucking. Especially where sawyer just unlaces line from above cut, right by him, rather than crew out 50' away trying to find end, cutting branches to find, struggling to get out etc.

i've even used a 1 ton into a 3:1 to lift where no crane would go. Hinging for such lifts is kinda a reverse theory like bucking, taper and dutching (to 1 side) jsut as helpful to steer load up into overhead line. Once again, over the end, under the back side(but not past CG so it won't invert) seem to give more of a 'rolling motion' /cradle to the hinging. We've also reversed a 2:1 on truck to pull loads up a steep 100' hill with a 50' truck run to knock out jobs in the Florida Heat.

Generally in good wood, i think it is better to pull/push to face focal with line and wedge, to force stronger hinge (with tapering or self adjustments of loading), then use that stronger hinge to steer. Steering with our added efforts, kinda replaces something that partially happens Naturally, and then is adjustable by other means(hinge/face). Not so good wood, then mebbe, i steer with 'added forces' of line and wedge more. i might use the interior of the face to steer individually, like the taper of hinge with dutching, but never to dutch full face/ no relief(operating each side of face separately, rather than generically the same). Together with taper; gives more leveraged reach etc. The depth of the hinge for me should be plotted so that the back of hinge opposing side lean force is at widest point of the available shape(which isn't all ways round, especially after disallowing any decayed parts. Solid dead doesn't work as good for tension wood, but is good for compression.
 
Remember, at the beginning of the post, no trucks, winches, grcs, etc. I once worked for some yahoos that loved their litle "yellow winch" way too much. Norm, why do you prefer the 5:1 over the come a long?
 
[ QUOTE ]
The local arborist where I live, who has been in business over 35 years, and whom I have observed and even worked for on numerous occasions, always pulls trees with a vehicle if he needs to fall them contrary to the lay. He does set up 2:1 MA systems for really big trees sometimes, but he still uses his truck to pull them over.

[/ QUOTE ]

In the past 20 years I have pulled hundreds maybe even a thousand or more trees using a vehicle when felling and have had zero problems.

I don't belong to the school that thinks it is unprofessional.

Like any high stakes tree pull..........it's the professional that makes it a professional technique.... not the technique itself. A yahoo with a 5 to 1 pulley set up is still a yahoo!(and I don't mean Norm, because Norm is no yahoo.)
 
Does a Nissan sentra count too?
grin.gif
 
[ QUOTE ]
To each his own. I primarily am concerned with the fundamentals of a come a long vs 5:1 (and now chain hoist). Norm is no yahoo, agreed by all I feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you count the Maasdam rope puller as a come a long?

I use one quite a bit rigged with a 2/1 mechanical advantage and a redirecting pulley so the operator does not have to be in the direction the tree is being felled.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Remember, at the beginning of the post, no trucks, winches, grcs, etc. I once worked for some yahoos that loved their litle "yellow winch" way too much. Norm, why do you prefer the 5:1 over the come a long?

[/ QUOTE ]

My 5 to 1 is readily available and if we need more, it can easily be converted to a 10 to 1 by adding 1 more single pulley and a length of rope. The MA system takes up tension way quicker than the come-a-long and is faster to connect.
Don't get me wrong, we do use come-a-longs occasionally, but the 5 to 1 way more often.
 
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Seems like you could have easily put a block at the pull point and simply pulled it over with a car or truck, avoiding all that pretty pulley stuff...

[/ QUOTE ]

We are professionals. We don't use cars and trucks to pull over trees. We don't use chipper winches either.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does not compute, Norm??

A professional knows to be cautious of overpulling if using engine power of any kind. Among other concerns---too much hinge, possible barberchair...breaking out the top......

We use whatever tool is at hand and makes the most sense based on the scenario..in order of advantage: hand pull, simple trucker's hitch, wedges, Z-rig, 5-1 or more, GRCS, chipper winch, truck tension.....

Seems this subject has been hashed over many times. If using powered equipment, we pretension with it, then usually resort to manual side pulling on the line for the final felling.

That said, for big stuff, I use the GRCS over anything else....and HMWPE line, of course.
 
With full respect, we can't wear blinders and ignore forces both helpful or harmful around us. We must see everything in these orchestrations, then make the choices.

i'm wit'Rog...
 
Hey, for your 5:1, here's a money saving option...

all that stuff is sold and mfgd for sailboat rigging. It's called a "mainsheet system" and you can easily google Harken, Lewmar, Schaeffer, etc for specs. Any mainsheet blocks from a 27' (or bigger) sailboat will work fine.

So here's how to save money: prowl marine salvage, marine second-hand, chandleries, or e-bay. Also, there are millions of websites with nerds sittings around, just like us, getting stressed because their Hunter 40 has all Lewmar hardware, except the mainsheet system, which is Harken, and they just can't live with that, you know, so they're gonna sell it for a fraction of the new price... just look around their websites and you'll come across a set that'll work. I got a set from a guy I raced against for free, all that was wrong was the self-camming unit was sticky...
 
[ QUOTE ]
With full respect, we can't wear blinders and ignore forces both helpful or harmful around us. We must see everything in these orchestrations, then make the choices.


[/ QUOTE ]

Well put my friend. The Maasdam puller is on a shelf at the shop, for some unknown reason I have avoided it. I will give it a second look. Now I need help designing a model to set up in the shop to demo the action of a chain hoist, come a long, 5:1, and rope puller. Throw the GRCS in there also. Where is the chain hoist pic Spydee?
 
Another note. We have recently experienced pulling the top out twice with the chipper winch, I want to realy look at that. Engine power is hard to harness for the unexperienced or those with wandering minds.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Do you count the Maasdam rope puller as a come a long?

I use one quite a bit rigged with a 2/1 mechanical advantage and a redirecting pulley so the operator does not have to be in the direction the tree is being felled.

[/ QUOTE ]

I use my Maasdam rope puller all the time when I'm tight lining (working solo), just as you've described. Works great if the trees aren't too large or have too much lean.

I also somtimes use a second one if I have alot of side lean and need additional support.

Of course nothing can beat my GRCS.
 
After doing a Cottonwood removal yesterday that had a very bad back lean next to a retaining wall with a lake below it. That GRCS truck mount for a reciever tube hitch is looking more appealing then ever.

I find a 5 to 1 to be overated and limiting for most tree work. Come alongs are clumsy to work with and they are slow compared to a 5 to 1 but do offer more pulling power for one man especially the 2 ton version with the cable.

I'll stick with a good running truck with solid footing and some room to move forward or backward with a good pull rope any day over a 5/1 or a come along.

We used most of these tools yesterday but I couldn't help think how much easier and faster we could have gotten that job done using the GRCS truck mount for the capstian.

Larry
 
I always have a few pulleys around. setting up a 5:1 or more like norm said is quick and definitly the most light weight and versatile. I always have them and often dont have my GRCS. I dont own a come-a-long.



you really do have to be careful with trucks and they are heavy and awkward and dont fit into backyards all that well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom