Cold Pruning Response of Deciduous Trees

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For the most part I am just playing devil's advocate to generate some discussion. But I do believe over pruning is abundant and pruning should be handled much more judiciously. It would probably amaze us what 10 arborists that thought they were the best pruners in the world would intend to do to the same tree, when quite possibly it needed nothing at all.

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And a good discussion it is. Good points about the forest, good quotes by Shigo to support them. I stand by my opinions about natural vs. unnatural, and what a tree is 'supposed' to be, but let's not get too existential here LOL.
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-Tom
 
the theme of pruning citified trees being beneficial has at least an annual life. there is NOTHING wrong with pruning. some species have become tame better than others. some need more care to become tame

this discussion shouldn't polarize our approach which it seem,s to every time it comes to life

when i took shigo's four day lab class many years ago we would take a walk through the wild woods at the arboretum every day. there were plenty of failures of wild trees in their natural setting that could have been eliminated with a well-timed cut. the learning, for me, came from seeing what set up a tree for success or failure. then i adapted my approach to pruning accordingly.

the biggest revelation came on the last walk. we spent this day in a city park. there were many old park trees as well as lots of nursery grown plantings.

shigo pointed out a codom on a honeylocust. he explained how open growth changed the structure. the lesson that day has become what we now call subordination pruning. this was a revelation to me. now i had an artificial way to control shape/structure that mimicked natural shedding.

our job is to reduce hazards and keep trees healthy around people. that makes us arborists since we deal with trees individually or small groups. otherwise we would be foresters.

if major pruning needs to happen consider timing to reduce collateral tissue injury. on the other hand timing to satisfy customer wants/needs to be considered.

many cities contract boulevard/park pruning contracts for winter time. arbos are hungry in the winter so prices are more competitive. a good learnin lab for comparison could be found by going out to see how the trees reacted after winter pruning. look for patterns, they're there. the ciyt arbo should have annual contract maps to follow. compare city cared for trees to residential trees that were/weren't pruned. more patterns to learn from.

this is what i've done when i've moved to a new city. the way hackberry grow here in austin is much different than in minneapolis. here, they get to about 20 years old and they go into steep decline, shedding large parts and decaying rapidly. in mpls. h'bry rarely need pruning because the dead that forms turns to powder and crumbles off. rarely is there [as] much work needed on them.
 
Semantics do come into play, don't they?

But you cannot look at a natural forest setting and an urban forest setting in the same frame of reference. In fact you cannot look at one site to another without altering your plans and goals. One site may be able to tolerate deadwood left in the tree or on site, while another simply cannot afford the liability hazards. Both are viable given their individual viewpoints.

It could also be argued that the urban forest trees that are planted now are, indeed, far different than their natural forest cousins due to genetic alterations made by man. We have "improved" and "enhanced" many trees to death....literally. By increasing a desirable quality, perhaps fall color, we may have sacrificed other aspects. We have tried to alter growth patterns to eliminate or decrease the potential of weak wood and included bark...I'm not convinced that has actually occurred so much as the verbage is a good marketing tool, eh?

I agree, TreeVet, overpruning happens all the time. If an individual or company goes out and sells a client on a service simply because they need the money....well that is wrong, no matter what term you apply to the cuts they are making. We have many times gotten jobs where we were radically under the competition, not because our rates are less, but we told the people that the amount of work needing to be done was substantially less than what others were saying.

Seriously digressing here. But, I agree, I think this has been a very interesting discussion.

Sylvia
 
[ QUOTE ]
the theme of pruning citified trees being beneficial has at least an annual life. there is NOTHING wrong with pruning. some species have become tame better than others. some need more care to become tame

this discussion shouldn't polarize our approach which it seem,s to every time it comes to life

when i took shigo's four day lab class many years ago we would take a walk through the wild woods at the arboretum every day. there were plenty of failures of wild trees in their natural setting that could have been eliminated with a well-timed cut. the learning, for me, came from seeing what set up a tree for success or failure. then i adapted my approach to pruning accordingly.

the biggest revelation came on the last walk. we spent this day in a city park. there were many old park trees as well as lots of nursery grown plantings.

shigo pointed out a codom on a honeylocust. he explained how open growth changed the structure. the lesson that day has become what we now call subordination pruning. this was a revelation to me. now i had an artificial way to control shape/structure that mimicked natural shedding.

our job is to reduce hazards and keep trees healthy around people. that makes us arborists since we deal with trees individually or small groups. otherwise we would be foresters.

if major pruning needs to happen consider timing to reduce collateral tissue injury. on the other hand timing to satisfy customer wants/needs to be considered.

many cities contract boulevard/park pruning contracts for winter time. arbos are hungry in the winter so prices are more competitive. a good learnin lab for comparison could be found by going out to see how the trees reacted after winter pruning. look for patterns, they're there. the ciyt arbo should have annual contract maps to follow. compare city cared for trees to residential trees that were/weren't pruned. more patterns to learn from.

this is what i've done when i've moved to a new city. the way hackberry grow here in austin is much different than in minneapolis. here, they get to about 20 years old and they go into steep decline, shedding large parts and decaying rapidly. in mpls. h'bry rarely need pruning because the dead that forms turns to powder and crumbles off. rarely is there [as] much work needed on them.

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Most of Shigo's seminars involved walks in the woods. The best of them all was the 4 and a half day seminar in Boone, NC I think you may be referring to. It was funny way back in the early years you were not allowed to record them as he was getting death threats because his changes in pruning and other practices and ideas were so controversial.

Like you I had many epiphanies when at his seminars. The interesting thing about evolving into a high level arborist is that you never go back. It is like owning a BMW....it is very difficult to go back to driving a Chevy.

I agree with what you have said here but have a couple of questions...What do you mean by "there is NOTHING wrong with pruning"? Do you mean any pruning for anything is fine.

Also what do you mean by "this discussion shouldn't polarize our approach which it seems to every time it comes to life"?

I would add another pruning consideration, that being that as trees get older less live tissue should be removed.
 
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you have to click the 'reply' bubble in the post, not make a quick reply to get the form w/emoticons





What do you mean by "there is NOTHING wrong with pruning"? Do you mean any pruning for anything is fine.

Also what do you mean by "this discussion shouldn't polarize our approach which it seems to every time it comes to life"?

so often the 'forest/city' and pruning is 'good/bad' or 'needed/unneccessary' becomes polarizing. unless replies are long the discussion bogs down onto talking points.

this has been a great thread. lots to mull over.

you're right...shigo influenced me in huge ways. he was the biggest catalyst for me shedding the Evil-Tom mode of working on trees and becoming an Arborist...can't go back on that path
 
[ QUOTE ]
gotcha
smirk.gif
smirk.gif


you have to click the 'reply' bubble in the post, not make a quick reply to get the form w/emoticons





What do you mean by "there is NOTHING wrong with pruning"? Do you mean any pruning for anything is fine.

Also what do you mean by "this discussion shouldn't polarize our approach which it seems to every time it comes to life"?

so often the 'forest/city' and pruning is 'good/bad' or 'needed/unneccessary' becomes polarizing. unless replies are long the discussion bogs down onto talking points.

this has been a great thread. lots to mull over.

you're right...shigo influenced me in huge ways. he was the biggest catalyst for me shedding the Evil-Tom mode of working on trees and becoming an Arborist...can't go back on that path

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I got it...thanks...I agree (now you can go back to signing autographs.....lol)
 
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