Did a job the other day on April fools and had a piece come undone in mid air. Good thing it landed between the house and a fence. Got real lucky cuz the gap was only about 2and half feet wide. thinking of what went wrong, I didn't leave enough tail. Probably only 6 inches and It rolled out. Alittle embarrassed but nobody got hurt and there was no damage.
Clove Hitch roll out
- Thread starter Rickytree
- Start date
Did you finish your clove with two half hitches? If it was a big piece and your determined to tie a clove you should being throwing in a marl to make it easier to untie and take a little of the brunt off the clove. If your dropping wood or limbs, a Stillson hitch (Girth hitch) with two half hitches is a better knot to tie. Its easy to untie under experiencing a load, and doesn't reduce the strength of rope as much as a clove. I only tie a clove when I'm worried about a tree splitting when I'm falling it, and I don't have any ratchet straps; a Stillson (Girth) is a poor choice for this application cause of the splitting force from the inside of the knot will cause it to roll over two half hitches rendering the knot useless. Always finish your rigging hitches with two half hitches (one for your groundie, and one for his mother.). The only rigging knot that requires about 6 inches of tail is your running bowline.
Hitches will roll out unless secured. Tautline, blake, girth, clove will all unravel if not tied off or a stopper knot is put in place. Hitches that use eye-to-eye cordage doesn't need this cause both ends are secured to a beener.
Hitches will roll out unless secured. Tautline, blake, girth, clove will all unravel if not tied off or a stopper knot is put in place. Hitches that use eye-to-eye cordage doesn't need this cause both ends are secured to a beener.
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
Perhaps a mistake in tying the clove hitch, if it had two half hitches. Wouldn't seem to roll out if tied right, but who knows. Is it possible that the CH slipped off the end of the branch?
Clove hitch when rigging should always have a half-hitch back onto the standing part and a half-hitch on the log or branch to share the load. Is that what you mean by two half-hitches?
I always leave a decent tail on this knot as it is sure prone to loosening. I have had the same thing happen to me before Ricky, only I didn't tie a half hitch on the log even though I knew better, in a hurry, small piece, you know the drill.
End result was a big dent in an expensive aluminium hand-rail.
I always leave a decent tail on this knot as it is sure prone to loosening. I have had the same thing happen to me before Ricky, only I didn't tie a half hitch on the log even though I knew better, in a hurry, small piece, you know the drill.
End result was a big dent in an expensive aluminium hand-rail.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
The clove hitch is a lousy knot for tying pieces. It's one of the best knots ever invented but it's best suited for mid-line, small diameters (like carabiner small) or static anchors. If it gets worked back and forth like with swinging wood it can roll out.
A running bowline is faster and easier than a clove with two half hitches because you only have to flip around the diameter once. You can always use a marl when you want extra security.
I'm a huge fan of the clove hitch because it's so easy to tie mid-line, i use it for attaching all kinds of stuff with biners but the only time i tie wood with it is doing the mid-line pieces in bouquets, the end piece gets a running bow.
A running bowline is faster and easier than a clove with two half hitches because you only have to flip around the diameter once. You can always use a marl when you want extra security.
I'm a huge fan of the clove hitch because it's so easy to tie mid-line, i use it for attaching all kinds of stuff with biners but the only time i tie wood with it is doing the mid-line pieces in bouquets, the end piece gets a running bow.
Treezybreez
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Lancaster, SC
A friend of mine had a large branch come loose from a running bowline. The reason it did was because it was too close to the butt end of the branch. Also smooth bark can cause some slippage.
How far from the butt end did you tie the clove?
How far from the butt end did you tie the clove?
Treezybreez I tied the clove at the top and was using a grcs to take up the slack. The piece came off from the tree did alittle shake rattle and a roll then fell to the ground. I am positive the hitch came out because I never left enough tail. Never happened when I would leave alot of tail. I am seriously thinking of using the running bowline with a marl like Blinky has stated. Still love the clove though.
Treezybreez
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Lancaster, SC
It is a good reminder to tie dress and set. I am glad you missed the house. I bet your hear skipped a beat.
- Location
- Pukalani, Hawaii
my rant with the clove hitch
im explaining how a clove hitch is very finicky and unless it has "2" half hitches it might be unsafe for rigging applications.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUc_djypA48
im explaining how a clove hitch is very finicky and unless it has "2" half hitches it might be unsafe for rigging applications.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUc_djypA48
Norm_Hall
New member
- Location
- Wauconda, (Chicago),IL,USA
[ QUOTE ]
It is a good reminder to tie dress and set.
[/ QUOTE ]
Amen!
That whole scenario of a branch 'rolling out' sounds a little sketchy. Something wasn't done right. If a clove is tied and backed w/2 half hitches, it has never failed me. Tail length should be enough to grab on, with a gloved hand, to cinch it tite.
Wanna try 'knotless rigging'? If removals are your 'bread and butter', it's the way to fly.
It is a good reminder to tie dress and set.
[/ QUOTE ]
Amen!
That whole scenario of a branch 'rolling out' sounds a little sketchy. Something wasn't done right. If a clove is tied and backed w/2 half hitches, it has never failed me. Tail length should be enough to grab on, with a gloved hand, to cinch it tite.
Wanna try 'knotless rigging'? If removals are your 'bread and butter', it's the way to fly.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
I agree on the knotless rigging thing, girth a sling, hook it up and let it fly; you can sling the next piece while the groundies work.
Be cautious with dyneema slings though, light degrades them faster than you might think. Good old 1" tubular nylon with beer knots is cheap and durable.
Be cautious with dyneema slings though, light degrades them faster than you might think. Good old 1" tubular nylon with beer knots is cheap and durable.
- Location
- Federal Way WA
[ QUOTE ]
Be cautious with dyneema slings[quote/]
Dyneema also loses tensile fast when it is exposed to temps above 150 degrees f.
Clove hitch should always be backed up with 2 half hitches around the standing part. It is very fast to tie and untie for those small diameter branches in a lowering situation. Can almost be tied with a quick flip of the wrist! I really like it for rigging multiple branches at once with the bottom branch tied with the running bowline.
Clove hitch should always be backed up with 2 half hitches tied around the standing part of the rope.
Did I say that twice?
Oh yeah, Knotless rigging is "da bes!"
Be cautious with dyneema slings[quote/]
Dyneema also loses tensile fast when it is exposed to temps above 150 degrees f.
Clove hitch should always be backed up with 2 half hitches around the standing part. It is very fast to tie and untie for those small diameter branches in a lowering situation. Can almost be tied with a quick flip of the wrist! I really like it for rigging multiple branches at once with the bottom branch tied with the running bowline.
Clove hitch should always be backed up with 2 half hitches tied around the standing part of the rope.
Did I say that twice?
Oh yeah, Knotless rigging is "da bes!"
I had a got size section roll out of a clove hitch 20 years ago. Put a nice hole in the roof.
From that time forward ALWAYS backed it with 2 half hitches.
Hat off to zeb.
From that time forward ALWAYS backed it with 2 half hitches.
Hat off to zeb.
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
I still recall, back in 1976 during my second year in the biz, when I was grounding, holding the line, and watching helplessly as Darrel's naked clove rolled out. It was maybe a couple hundred pound section, over a roof, but it held long enough during its swing to land harmlessly. Phew.
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
Big fan of the clove i.e. strength retention, very fast to tie, especially for negative blocking....but it doesn't automatically set itself thats for sure.
chris_girard
Branched out member
- Location
- Gilmanton, N.H.
[ QUOTE ]
Big fan of the clove i.e. strength retention, very fast to tie, especially for negative blocking....but it doesn't automatically set itself thats for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reg, do you use a clove for your crane work or switch over to a cow hitch instead? I've heard some bad things about using a clove for crane work, just curious.
Big fan of the clove i.e. strength retention, very fast to tie, especially for negative blocking....but it doesn't automatically set itself thats for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reg, do you use a clove for your crane work or switch over to a cow hitch instead? I've heard some bad things about using a clove for crane work, just curious.
- Location
- Federal Way WA
I think its good to remember that there is no such thing as a good or bad knot. Just remember that knots affect the tensile ability, some work better than others for a scenario, and tied correctly they do what they should. The only times I have heard of knots coming undone have been when they were not tied correctly, ie. clove hitch not backed up with 2 half hitches.
When you tie a knot, it must be TIED DRESSED and SET.
A knot not well tied is not a knot...
When you tie a knot, it must be TIED DRESSED and SET.
A knot not well tied is not a knot...
Reg
Branched out member
- Location
- Victoria, BC
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Big fan of the clove i.e. strength retention, very fast to tie, especially for negative blocking....but it doesn't automatically set itself thats for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reg, do you use a clove for your crane work or switch over to a cow hitch instead? I've heard some bad things about using a clove for crane work, just curious.
[/ QUOTE ]
I use both Chris, for spiderlegs on limbs and tops etc. Never had a problem.
[ QUOTE ]
Big fan of the clove i.e. strength retention, very fast to tie, especially for negative blocking....but it doesn't automatically set itself thats for sure.
[/ QUOTE ]
Reg, do you use a clove for your crane work or switch over to a cow hitch instead? I've heard some bad things about using a clove for crane work, just curious.
[/ QUOTE ]
I use both Chris, for spiderlegs on limbs and tops etc. Never had a problem.
