Climbing Lightening Struck Trees.

M

mrtree

Participating member
I have been asked to climb and remove a cottonwood that has been struck and killed by lightening. The damge to the structure seems minimal with only small amounts of wood blown off (though an 18 inch wide section of bark covering the damaged wood was dislodged).

How would you determine wether the tree is safe to climb? I do not need to climb the tree for the money, but I would like to do the job for personal reasons.

Michael
 
Remember PETER DONZELLI.August 2000
If I am not mistaken it was a tree that had been struck by lighting that took his life.I remember something about a report Alex Shigo did on the tree after.The lighting if I remember correctly had caused internal ring shakes that were not visible until the wood was cross sectioned causing the wood to loose it strength causing the tree to snap underneath him while snatching out.If the death of Don Donzelli an arborist highly respected by all serves no other purpose.Then it should be to safe the lives of other colleges about to put themshelfs in a similar situation.

Lighting damaged trees are probable the unpredictable hazard you can put yourself into a 1000000 volts does strange things.
 
How long ago did it get hit?

You can take a dead-blow hammer and thump test it. Most experienced climbers will know what the melon test should sound like.

Can you tie into another tree or maybe set up a floating false crotch, like a horizontal speedline, as your tie in?

Consider chain binders or four inch ratchet straps to choke the trunk in case the inside is shattered.

Tom
 
Set your lifeline with your throwball. Tie one end off around the trunk and have your biggest groundman and yourself jump and hang on the other end. This will give you over 4X your weight pull on your tie-in point. If it doesn't break then you can probably climb on it without too much worry.
 
We have removed many lightning struck this season with our crane and never had a problem. About 2 weeks ago we were removing a lightning struck White Pine.one cut with the crane no problem. Left about a 35' stick that we felled. When the stick hit the ground it broke and sectioned off into perfect squares. This was super spokey and I have seen it a few trimes in the past but only on pines and spruce, never on a deciduous tree.
 
Micheal asked "How can i tell if this tree is safe to climb I don't need the money,but i want to do it for personal reasons"
Micheal I'm not getting at you!!!
But if you have to ask how to tell if this tree is safe that means This Particular situation is new to you????
You don't need the money..
I have to ask the question then why do you want to do it???
I'm taking a shot in the dark here but maybe something to do with respect gained from others?????We all know that story and suffer the same affliction,wether we admit it or not!!!
I'm sorry and I'm going to tread on toes here.Most people on this Forum don't know me from Adam....
But I think that a little bit of information is a dangerous thing and others posting Ideas and techniques on how to take down a tree that is potentially dangerous without themselves seeing or inspecting it is not a good thing to put it mildly.

I don't know you Micheal so therefore I can't judge your level of climbing ability and experience maybe others who post replies do.This a side putting ideas in your head
that you haven't had yourself in this situation,is irresponsible.....Next we will be telling our customers how to take trees down themselves over the phone.....
And since when has putting a line in a tree and trying to pull the thing over been an accepted form of hazard evaluation..Limbs have a memory too not just ropes!!!!!!!!!

DIDJ:::
 
If you climb it , don't climb it scared . The first thing I would do is make sure it has to be climbed , if you can get a bucket to it and don't own one rent one . To say "don't climb a lightning struck tree cause Peter Donzelli had an accident" is a lame answer . This is a good place to ask how to climb a lightning struck tree , where else you gonna go? The only reason I would climb one and remove it , would be for the money . There are no awards for dangerous trees so you better get the money . that's my 2 cents .
 
i agree with riggs. climbing anything scared is initself an accident waiting to happen. personal reasons or otherwise, accidents aren`t cool and neither is being stupid yet `hardcore`.
 
...Wow guys,...this is crazy stuff to read. Peter Donzelli would most likely be shaking his head at us today. Be carefull and don't put yourself in a situation that you'll later regret. Your best reasons for working safe are waiting at home.

Climb safe
 
Is climbing a tree with confidence a strong atribute in a unknown hazardouse cituation good ? I undedrstand what you fellas are saying because I've done many hazardouse rermovals with confidence, dead , live, , split to the ground , lightening struck, whatever. But somehow it becomes a numbers game and if you dont know when to say no, then your number will be up .

Dont jerk on the tree with 4x the weight, you may be compounding a internal problem that you dont know about.I know we've all done it, but dont do it in this case .

Take Tome's advice if your going to climb it. Strap it bind it periodically and do some sound checks on it.

By the way , How tall and how high up did the lightening hit.?
 
What is interesting is hearing that the lightning blew out.
What it wants to do is get to ground so if it blew out I would expect that the tree took too much to handle and is probably hurt'n inside.
 
I have seen the blow out before. The energy did not neccesarily jump out of the tree. It likely just boiled the sap and the steam fractured the wood. I have seen lightning chase down the bark because it was wetter than the inside of the tree and a better conductor.

Dave
 
That's what I usually see here, split trees, spiral lines running down the bark to ground along with furrows where ever the roots go, usually leading to wet ground.
 
DIDJON

I think you are the idiot here, I have climbed plenty of trees and have plenty of experience and no this is not a new situation.

I asked how would a person ascertain if the tree is safe to climb. I have no intention of doing something stupid, but clearly there must be a way to learn skills or methods and asking might be one such way.

DIDJON what exactly do you do to determine if a tree is safe to climb? Give it the once over by eye, guess, thump the tree, increment bore to determine holding wood, carry a resistograph up the tree and check with that for ring shakes, or do Norwegian climbers instinctively know a tree is safe. Maybe you don't climb unless somebody has already been up and down to prove it is safe for you. I am sure Peter Donzenalli is not shaking his head, he is likely looking for your answer as much as I am. You clearly know some magic interpretive method of hazard tree evaluation most of us don't.


Mr. DIDJON's response clearly shows why arboriculture is an industry in many ways in the dark ages. God forbid you should ask a question, because clearly you do not know what you are doing and certainly don't deserve to ask those that have magically gained their knowledge without ever asking a question. Presumably DIDJON was born with all the knowledge and skills of the worlds greatest arborist and never was in a new situation, asked a question, or tried to learn a new approach from others.

Michael
 
The tree must be climbed to remove, no chance of a fancy highline or swing from another tree. It is rural but no chance to drop the tree due to location. It is really an easy removal other than the lightening question.

The tree is probaby 30 inch at the base and 75 foot tall with few branches, never been a great tree as long as I remember. It was struck about a year ago and never recovered. I have no great quams about climbing it now other than because Donzenalli's death (in this case) has lead me to ask more questions and look for good answers.

Michael
 
Dear Micheal,
If I have offended you in anyway then I'm sorry it was not my intention to do so.
I do not dispute that the buzz is a good source information and help for all(including"IDIOTS"like myself)
If you wish to know my hazard evaluation for a lightening struck tree then I will tell you....
This is general...
First I would get as much background info as possible IE:
Location of tree?What species?
When it died? Did it die straight away or sometime after the strike?Have bits fallen off it already?How upright is it or does it lean?Is there any visible signs of decay or damage how serious are they?How intact is the root system?
How dangerous is it to the public and property?Is there another way to remove it without climbing it?Does it need to be removed or can it be left to let nature take its course?Check for internal breakdown DDT,Increment borer,mallet,at the base.I would check with the local meteorological institute to find out weather conditions the last few weeks windspeeds.IF I know this I can get a Idea of the structural integraty.If it has indured strong winds recently then it will have at least some mechanical support left.
Once I have reviewed all this information and previous similar situations I have dealt with I would make a dicision,As to how dangerous it is.I am going to quote climbinfool here he said its a numbers game and I agree completely.Are the numbers in my favour or not?
If then i decided to climb it I would decide the best technique,s to use.
Tom has already given some ideas for this.

BY the way Mate I*m not Norwegian.I'm English,secondly I would never send anyone up something I wouldn't go up myself you can ask anyone whose ever worked with that.Thirdly I was not QUOTE "Born with all the knowledge of the worlds best Arborist"UNQUOTE and I DO NOT claim to be so.I am however A third generation climber born into this industry and I have done a lot of reading and studying over the years.

didj...

P.s The majority of people in the world think I*M an IDIOT after all I do climb up trees for a living.....
 
I can pretty much agree except for one point. Even though it sounds good on paper, I have never ever seen or heard of anyone 'checking with the local meteorological institute' for windspeeds over the previous few weeks. Once the climber shows up on the job and sees the tree, stopping the job to go home and figure out who to contact and how to contact them to ask about windspeeds over the past few weeks does not seem to be a practical suggestion.

Rather, I think this is the type of thing that comes with experience. It is a gut instinct based on thousands of climbs, thousands of removals of different species in various stages of decay. It isn't something you can put down on paper but rather something you just 'know' by looking, touching, feeling, listening. As you climb up, the feel of your gaffs sinking into the wood (or bouncing off ultra brittle sun-hardened wood) will tell you if it's safe to climb higher. The sway of the trunk when you lean back on your lanyard. This is the kind of stuff you must live in order to understand. No one can give it to you in written form. We can offer suggestions, but the final call is yours and yours alone when you start to climb up that dead tree.
 
HI Rock J,
Alright the weather report is probably a bit over the top for most cases,But if you live in the area you generally know what the weather has been like the last few weeks.you've normally been up a tree in it.
I was afraid to mention "Gut instinct", in case I got branded branded a witch or such like...

cheers
Didj
 
I saw a white pine today that was hit by lightning a few weeks ago.
One very straight line of bark missing about a half inch wide starting about two thirds of the total length of the tree from the top to about a foot above the root flare.
It looks like it should heal and be ok.
 
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