Climber falls onto fence using doubled rope ascent

Re: Climber falls onto fence using doubled rope as

Sorry for the ambiguity...What I meant was, there are many issues regarding the technique, that is the technique that led to the fall. But not relevant to the fall.

I then went on to present issues that need consideration for an ascent system.

The point being that Tom and I believe there are better ways to ascend than the technique of footlocking a doubled line with twin ascenders, when you consider these points.

But if all you're interested in is getting up a tree as fast as possible, be my guest, footlock with twin ascenders to your hearts content.

Just in thier rush for speed, climbers don't always establish system redundancy with twin ascenders, because it slows them down and it gets complicated. And they have a point - they might as well run a safer system in SRT, that has redundancy even if they forget to clip the top holes.
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I think the real issue showing through with theses debates is how some climbers feel that footlocking and pumping biceps is at the core of who they are - an elitest physical supremo. To remove the great need for it deflates the ego. And we all know how ugly that can get
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Re: Climber falls onto fence using doubled rope as

Honestly Paulo I just want to get the job done and go home.I said earlier- fast and safe, I also said I always backup my ascenders.Just wondering do you do production climbing daily?I respect you bro please give me the same respect and maybe listen a little.I dont even own a pair of Kongs,I actually had a buddy brake his arm using a pair on a single line not backed up-the cam was defective.Look we try to move fast get the work done but never do we compromise safety.In fact my company has an awesome safety record and thank God for that.My point is if a person doesnt backup ascenders properly on an srt he can fall thats it!Yes I believe in ascending trees in a -variety of ways,it all depends on the tree.I tree frog,footlock double and single rope,anchor a pulley(ala anchor bridge variation),use friction savers and rope guides,ladders,rooftops and body thrust.Whatever way I feel will get me in the tree safe, fast and efficient and best suited for that particular tree,because i want to go home and be with my family.Please dont twist my words I never take chances to go fast-thats stupid.Sometimes I go days even weeks without footlocking it all depends on the tree,dude ive got no hidden agenda or biasness I'll try anything if its safe.Honestly if you ask me I think anchoring a pulley and working the tree on the way up is probably the most efficient way to climb in our area,but hey thats only if you ask me.We dont have 100 foot trees around ever corner(maybe average of 40'),but if I run across one I get out the tree frog .Oh yeah and I could care less about ego or pumping my biceps, I just wanna get home safely with some time left over for my family-life is way bigger than my job.
 
Re: Climber falls onto fence using doubled rope as

I didn't aim my points at anyone in particular Jimmy. Sorry if you feel that way.

For 40 foot trees I'd probably go with the RAD choked to the limb (sounds like maybe you have weak limbed species round your parts???). This way you can work your way up, not worry about anchor forces, have emergency descent ability, use only one rope (two can be an issue of smaler trees) and quickly change to a DdRT system at the top. If you synch the ascent pulling with a groundie, you can really fly up on a RAD!

My business is 50% consultancy and 50% production at the moment. Which means I work blocks. That can be a lot of pressure, because a job can't run over.
 
Re: Climber falls onto fence using doubled rope as

[ QUOTE ]
I'll tell you, I am one lucky son of a gun to have escaped injury from most of the near misses in my life. Oh, yeah, a few got me. The good part is I've been able to pass on the examples of those experiences, both good and bad.

So hopefully others will learn. I'm betting on it!

[/ QUOTE ]

Jerry, that is one of the things that I like about the TreeBuzz site is that it allows us a forum where we can learn and pass on our life's experiences to others and maybe save a life along the way.

Paolo, as you know I've been an SRT convert for over a year now thanks to you and Tom. I have a 20' (6 m) ladder that I use for tree pruning ascent when I can, anything over that and its SRT all the way.

I think the TreeFrog is the best (most efficient) SRT currently out there today.

I was wondering if you have thought of producing a DVD of your SRT systems and training classes? I know that a lot of us would be interesting in purchasing it and it would "enlighten" others as to your methods.
 
Re: Climber falls onto fence using doubled rope as

Paolo if you assume we have weak wooded trees,why would you recommend choking off?If I have weak wood I go srt over multiple limbs in case of failure.Yes I know the forces double but I feel thats safer over multiple limbs than choking off on one single weak branch?Just say you agree one time?When the job cant run over Paolo does that cause you maybe to go faster or do you just walk away?Maybe if you ascend on your own your groudie could do something else and maybe get done a little faster and relieve some of your pressure.
 
Re: Climber falls onto fence using doubled rope as

I'm not trying to lock horns with you Jimmy; I suggested choking with the RAD because I thought you had experience of climbers breaking TIPS with SRT ie. maybe they misplaced leverage/anchor forces??? I'm just suggesting that with the RAD you can choke OR run through several crotches and tie off at the base - whatever is more appropriate at the time.

My point is that, with Big Shot, two throwlines, two ropes, RAD, Frog, Spurs and DdRT, I've got it pretty much covered upto about 150 feet - which is most of the big trees roundabout here. Although not far away is a 200 foot Douglas with some pretty big brothers.

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Re: Climber falls onto fence using doubled rope as

Personally, I have to side with Toms origional statement:

"When will it be accepted that using SRT is 'better'?"

Sure the load is twice as great on the limb you accending, but isn't that why we are encouraged to have our line over mutiple limbs instead??? One breaks the next catches us??? Ddrt- one breaks- go bye bye???

For me the only reason I use the Ddrt is practice for the competition-really though Im looking forward to the day when it is no longer an event at the jamboree at all. If you question its safety perhaps ask yourself why each climber is belayed at the event by a judge, then ask yourself- is the climber belayed the at the job site with a Ddrt accent-more than likely-no.

Mechanical accenders or traditional prussik, the Ddrt is over all a higher risk accent than the Srt. Lose it, forget it ever existed and start encouraging the SRT by utilizing it at the jamboree rather than the Ddrt. Change is needed.
 
That fence pic is seriously disturbing...the climber is lucky to be alive.

About 12 years ago, I was thinning out watersprouts on a large diameter linden. At one spot I had to unhook my safety lanyard to clear some old stubs. (And I had no mainline in the tree. I think back then the rules were a bit blurred about being tied in at all times, you know, the 3 point attachment plan!) I had to literally throw my lanyard back around the trunk to reach it on the left side, however I grabbed at it and missed it with my left hand. I fell backwards and somehow managed to grab a small, old stub, that just previously I had tried to ascend above! Anyway, after catching my breath and getting re-attached, I looked down and probably 30 feet below me was a large wooden box full of chunks of slate and other rocks. It cranked me back to reality and I quickly installed my top line. Very close call.
 
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