Call to regulation pros/cons...

[Chaplain242]

Came across this in the news this morning:

After man dies from felling of a tree, Casper looking at tree and shrub rules

CASPER, Wyo. — After a man died in Casper as the result of an individual not certified as an arborist cutting trees in his yard, the Casper City Council

oilcity.news

The consulted arborists and tree company’s advised for regulation of treework within the City’s zone of authority, being licenced contractors, high/higher threshold of insurance, and fines for anyone not licenced carrying out Treeworks etc...

It doesn’t take much effort to read about crews of undocumented workers, or small contractors that don’t have insurance, or don’t carry out regulated treework (paper trail everything, full ppe, licenced, etc competing against companies that tick all the boxes and the angst caused (there are threads in this and other sites of just this issue)

All companies that invest in a business want a return, and being able to corner a market and exclude competition by use of local government restrictions to help them do that is an option that will likely reap some benefits.

Question is having these type of governmental regulation and controls in the interest of Arboriculture practice as a whole?

By this question I am referring to community engagement and education as a method, vs implementing a governmental control over the practice of arboriculture (knowing from experience that government regulatory controls can initiate a host of other unexpected implications from those imposed controls.

A case example is losing licenced arbs from a company’s payroll for whatever reason and then having to shut down operations until licences arbs can be recruited etc...

Question being are these calls for regulation (by local licenced/insured operators) a good call? A good call long term?

 

[cerviarborist]

@Chaplain242 How is requiring that a practitioner actually be qualified to do the work they practice being exclusionary? How is that keeping those companies from stepping up their game and becoming certified?

 

[Chaplain242]

@Chaplain242 How is requiring that a practitioner actually be qualified to do the work they practice being exclusionary? How is that keeping those companies from stepping up their game and becoming certified?

Hi cerviarborist, the point of the question was not on the ideal condition merits of people getting trained, companies becoming licensed/certified etc but the general merits of clamping down with bureaucratic measures as a method of implementation.

Case example would be in some regions enforcing certified line pruners, by clamping down and having expensive training and regulatory costs being a barrier to get personnel because everyone wants to pilfer/recruit staff instead of training their own etc etc

 

[Woodwork]

One way to cut down on competition for those who are already members of "the club."

Will it make the world overall a safer place? There's always the "if it saves one child" argument...

All I know is, we need MOAR LAWRS. Free people get away with WAY too much stuff!

 

[Reach]

I like the idea of requiring a license of some variety to work on trees, if it would work. Unfortunately I see it a being as unenforced as most other similar laws around here, so all it will do in reality is to raise expenses for those of us who run legitimate companies.

 

[JD3000]

 

[cerviarborist]

I continue to call BS on this. There are no shortage of plumbers entering the plumbing industry after having become trained and licensed in their states, nor electricians or barbers for that matter. However the tragic greek chorus of onerous burden to become licensed continues to be sung whenever it concerns trees and tree companies.

 

[Chaplain242]

I continue to call BS on this. There are no shortage of plumbers entering the plumbing industry after having become trained and licensed in their states, nor electricians or barbers for that matter. However the tragic greek chorus of onerous burden to become licensed continues to be sung whenever it concerns trees and tree companies.

So if it was stamped and regulated tomorrow you think it would have a positive effect on the arborist trade as a whole? I know in one region the price of treeworks increased substantially. You think the tree economy could handle it at this time? Or would there be a knock on effect of less tree work being done by the tree economy as a whole? The amswer would change depending on location/region - just canvassing opinions...

 

[cerviarborist]

Chaplain.. I've noticed a common thread in your posts.. " I know of a region.. I know of a company". Let's have some specifics, if they exist. We work (or should) in a scientifically driven realm of endeavor, and it shouldn't be difficult to cite actual cases to support your statement.

 

[Brocky]

View attachment 62164
That’s how God would have made them if he had known what He was doing at the time. It takes the brilliance of man to achieve perfection

 

[VenasNursery]

M

So if it was stamped and regulated tomorrow you think it would have a positive effect on the arborist trade as a whole? I know in one region the price of treeworks increased substantially. You think the tree economy could handle it at this time? Or would there be a knock on effect of less tree work being done by the tree economy as a whole? The amswer would change depending on location/region - just canvassing opinions...

Multiple “companies “ have employees driving trucks with out drivers license! Not to mention liability -workmen’s comp or pull permits to do removals!! Most of them treat their customers like garbage and they somehow stay busy terrible ratings and all!
Good luck
Too many PIRATES out there!!!
They don’t follow rules or laws
I wish someone could or would do something

 

[VenasNursery]

M
Multiple “companies “ have employees driving trucks with out drivers license! Not to mention liability -workmen’s comp or pull permits to do removals!! Most of them treat their customers like garbage and they somehow stay busy terrible ratings and all!
Good luck
Too many PIRATES out there!!!
They don’t follow rules or laws
I wish someone could or would do something

But they make me SHINE EVERYDAY

 

[Chaplain242]

Chaplain.. I've noticed a common thread in your posts.. " I know of a region.. I know of a company". Let's have some specifics, if they exist. We work (or should) in a scientifically driven realm of endeavor, and it shouldn't be difficult to cite actual cases to support your statement.

Hi Cerviarborist, in answer to your question the not identifying region is done for two reasons.

First in this case so I dont hijack my own thread with another discussion, as I am asking for points of view apart from one of my own, or experiences of those outside of my social media base.

Two, in some other threads to identify the company/person is to start a s@*t fight elsewhere if there are privacy or sensitive implications. So I just don't go there. Trust me its true, or don't. It was as an example to expand discussion, not the subject. Plus combative tone just asking for me to ignore the challenge..

 

[DSMc]

The type of industry regulations being discussed generally do improve regulation within that industry. Pointing out that something works however, think fertilizer, does not address all that will happen. Non of the proposed regulations would have addressed what happen in Wyoming.

 

[southsoundtree]

If homeowners and illegal operations got huge fines, it might work.

So many homeowners and tree works run under the table and/ or illegally.

A guy I know who just told me he get the jobs, $300-500 cash daily for 6 or so hours, and the other guy, with the Lic/ Bond/ GL Ins, NO WC, takes the rest.

 

[JD3000]

The type of industry regulations being discussed generally do improve regulation within that industry. Pointing out that something works however, think fertilizer, does not address all that will happen. Non of the proposed regulations would have addressed what happen in Wyoming.

Fertilization would be regulated so as to be prescription only, based on soil and/or tissue testing.

 

[Chaplain242]

Fertilization would be regulated so as to be prescription only, based on soil and/or tissue testing.

Here restricting sale of N fert has helped a lot in this regard to stop water pollution from runoff - have to be a Hort business operator to buy it. Significant improvements even if not ideal

 

[Chaplain242]

One issue that I see would be good for is the control of standover thugs that cold sell treework at overinflated prices and intimidate for payment that day - typically to elderly. This type of control would go a long way to restricting thugs as they could lose their permit to operate as there would be violation to chase, not just accusations of intimidation. Can be a bit of a problem at times here.

 

[DSMc]

Fertilization would be regulated so as to be prescription only, based on soil and/or tissue testing.

That was my intended point. Fertilizer works but can not be used in every situation or without thought, or bad things can happen.

 

[Woodwork]

Here restricting sale of N fert has helped a lot in this regard to stop water pollution from runoff - have to be a Hort business operator to buy it. Significant improvements even if not ideal

Interesting. I never thought of something lacking N as a fertilizer, but I guess there are fertilizers just for roots and/or flowers, as opposed to just green.

Around here, it's hard to get fertilizer with P in it. (Chesapeake Bay watershed.)