Cabling question

For a very competitive price, I can install 3/8" EHS cable with Wedge Grips, drilling one little 7/16" hole in each stem being supported, achieving a system with 15k lbs breaking strength, which ought not to require replacement every 8 years (and probably a lot sooner here in sunny Florida.) As to taut.. the definition of taut is a lack of visible slack, not banjo-string tight.
 
I do like the easy look and low cost of the branch saver. I think this is what I will go with in my tree. I like the Cobra, but it sure is pricey. I don't even know how to go about selling cabling yet/ pricing. I was once told materials+ time
 
We have been installing branch saver pretty consistently here. I agree with the statement about included bark as a general rule, remembering that every tree is different. Included bark on a silver maple or river birch has a different "weight" (in relation to the tree's condition) than on a Pin oak. Reduction pruning is a must in most situations and has on several occasions deferred the installation of the cabling (mainly heavily reduced river birch).
The cobra has its plus sides but has more negatives (in my eyes at least) and I stopped using it when I ran out last time. There are too many components that you need to keep up with, cable, chafe sleeve, expansion insert shock absorber. If you drop one piece or fall behind in an order it becomes a pain.
The biggest part when looking at pricing is cover all the costs. 1 cable in a tree is going to cost more per cable than if you put 3 or 4 or 12 in. Because in most (but not all) cases the bulk of your time is accessing the tree. Once there, multiples are easy and quick to install, normally.
We just did a red oak (4th largest in DE) and ended up getting 8 branch saver cables installed. One climber stayed in the middle and the other ended up climbing the tree 5 times to install the peripherals. This was one case where it wasn't quick and easy and you gotta be careful not to cut the cost too much on multiples.
 
Raven27 said:
So is it best to give a flat rate based on how long you think it should / will take? Like aNY other job I suppose
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Normally I give the price as a package. So the Red Oak was supposed to get 6 (from what I could see at the ground). They got my day rate for 3 climbers and materials. When we got done installing 8 (what was needed once in the tree), I didn't charge them more because the additional cables fell within the scope of the original estimated time and materials... And we were right there.
The flat rate works but you have to be ready to adjust it depending on the tree and how complicated the system is you will be installing. An example would be a river birch I cabled a couple months ago. 3 cables in a triangle not overly long and nice central tie. I was done in an hour and a half and I couldn't consciously charge $600 ($200 each) for it, but the red oak was closer to $300 each because of complexity and lengths. What I do like to do on trees like the birch is estimate the $600 and be a hero and drop the price back when done. Customers will remember that next time they have work and you will get repeat business (but some expect it every time even when you loose your ass and you have to be ready to explain).
 
cerviarborist said:
For a very competitive price, I can install 3/8" EHS cable with Wedge Grips, drilling one little 7/16" hole in each stem being supported, achieving a system with 15k lbs breaking strength, which ought not to require replacement every 8 years (and probably a lot sooner here in sunny Florida.) As to taut.. the definition of taut is a lack of visible slack, not banjo-string tight.
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@cerviarborist When you say 8 years are you referring to those slings? Because I thought the Branchsaver is good for longer than that. BTW, I would only use the slings in very specific situations.

And if you don't mind me asking, what does an install look like for you with the wedge grips? Pre-tension with havens grip and comealong? Any special tools besides the regular stuff for steel cabling?

What is currently the best wedge grip/dead end grip available for EHS? (Cost / ease of installation)

Have you ever had any of these sort of failures:
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/threads/wedge-grip-failures.34207/#post-499282
 
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Best guidance is in the German standard: http://www.fll.de/shop/baume-und-geholze/ztv-baumpflege.html
ANSI resists any change, and the ISA BMP follows along. They are designed around market share more than tree care.

Wedgegrips work well if installed correctly, and they made that pretty simple. Rigguys wirestops are a little harder to put in but also work well.

Your maple might not even need a cable--why not just reduce it?
 
guymayor said:
Best guidance is in the German standard: http://www.fll.de/shop/baume-und-geholze/ztv-baumpflege.html
ANSI resists any change, and the ISA BMP follows along. They are designed around market share more than tree care.

Wedgegrips work well if installed correctly, and they made that pretty simple. Rigguys wirestops are a little harder to put in but also work well.

Your maple might not even need a cable--why not just reduce it?
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After actually going up in the tree to measure for cable and look at her. I'm thinking I can reduce it it down / thin it as you mentioned. I'll get to it. Lol
 
We must never forget with cable/ support installs to sell/ make customer aware that there are continued costs with regular inspections at regular intervals in the future. All types of cables need to be inspected by the installer regularly! Include the cost of two return visits in your original price.


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I don't impose on my clients by charging them for follow up inspections along with the initial installation. However, I do give them a separate addendum to my proposal to sign, which clarifies that support systems aren't a "once and done" proposition, that future annual inspections should be made, and that scheduling and paying for those future inspections are the client's responsibility. It also specifies that payment for those future inspections is NOT included in the installation fee.
 
cerviarborist said:
I don't impose on my clients by charging them for follow up inspections along with the initial installation. However, I do give them a separate addendum to my proposal to sign, which clarifies that support systems aren't a "once and done" proposition, that future annual inspections should be made, and that scheduling and paying for those future inspections are the client's responsibility. It also specifies that payment for those future inspections is NOT included in the installation fee.
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I prefer to bind them to it under contract, it's not their choice, tree first.


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Worthaug said:
I prefer to bind them to it under contract, it's not their choice, tree first.


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By doing this you shift the liability for inspection onto yourself. ANSI states "periodically by a qualified arborist". We quote the standard and state it is the clients responsibility for scheduling and associated costs. Normally we are out looking at the tree for pruning or other concerns anyhow so the costs are included in the next visit.
 
Worthaug said:
A Cobra installation left to girdle a stem would be the installers fault, YEAH?


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Not if the duty of care is contractually placed on the customer to have periodic inspections done by a qualified arborist familiar with the cobra system and associated risks such as girdling .. (We send out courtesy reminders but are not responsible if they ignore them)


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Fuck this country and sue happy fuck heads. I'm the professional and I'll take full responsibility.

The trees won't be inspected if it's not required by contract. Again, trees first!!!


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Worthaug said:
A Cobra installation left to girdle a stem would be the installers fault, YEAH?
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I would say no as long as you inform them of their duty. This is the wording that is added to every work order with cabling that I write (in bold between the work and the total):

Cable support systems should be inspected bi-annually by a qualified arborist. Inspections and the costs associated with them are the responsibility of the tree owner. Inspections should be completed by a qualified arborist and should include system: condition; position; cable tension; and the trees structural integrity.
 
Worthaug said:
Fuck this country and sue happy fuck heads. I'm the professional and I'll take full responsibility.

The trees won't be inspected if it's not required by contract. Again, trees first!!!
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In many cases you are correct, they may never be seen again. But I am not putting it on my head to "remember" or schedule what the client is responsible for. I have several clients which call every year to look at their cables. I just had a big yellow client call me to inspect their whole property. Ended up being 2 days of climbing to look at cables. I got called cause their rep didn't tell them they needed to be inspected!
 
flyingsquirrel25 said:
In many cases you are correct, they may never be seen again. But I am not putting it on my head to "remember" or schedule what the client is responsible for. I have several clients which call every year to look at their cables. I just had a big yellow client call me to inspect their whole property. Ended up being 2 days of climbing to look at cables. I got called cause their rep didn't tell them they needed to be inspected!
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Ever heard of Google calendar? You don't have to remember.


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cerviarborist said:
The next time a tree writes me a check, it can come first. Until then I follow standards and help my paying clients find the best solutions that work for them in managing their trees.
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Good for you, you know where you stand.

I could really give a shit about money and their so called "owners", but, I'm passionate about trees.


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