I was wondering about taking sling grade tenex. I was looking to use the locking brummel and make slings for my blocks just using a single eye at one end and then cow hitching or timber hitching it around the tree but i want to make sure that I have the right amount of tail buried in it. Anyone have an answer?
Bury Length for sling
- Thread starter PUClimber
- Start date
- Location
- St. Paul, MN
I've always buried 21 to 24 times the diameter in inches. 12" bury on 1/2" rope.
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
Consider using a loopie, you'll be better off.
Lumberjack
Branched out member
+1 for a loopie.
In 1/2" tennex, a locking brummel 12" sounds right, with a nice smooth taper.
But, a loopie.......
good stuff!
In 1/2" tennex, a locking brummel 12" sounds right, with a nice smooth taper.
But, a loopie.......
good stuff!
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
I personally don't like loopies. Just too cumbersome for me...especially if they belong to Lumberjack.
For your sling...technically you can go with a shorter tail than what samsom calls for in their directions...because the splice is in the locked brummell, not so much the bury. I think Samson says bury 2 fids, so if we cut that in half...21 rope diameters would be 10.5 inches...aka, aprox 1 foot...that'd be a good tail with a locked brummell.
love
nick
For your sling...technically you can go with a shorter tail than what samsom calls for in their directions...because the splice is in the locked brummell, not so much the bury. I think Samson says bury 2 fids, so if we cut that in half...21 rope diameters would be 10.5 inches...aka, aprox 1 foot...that'd be a good tail with a locked brummell.
love
nick
- Location
- Port Townsend, Washington
Hello,
As I understand it, the buried tail needs to generate enough friction for ultimate security, and the Brummel is there to keep the tail from shifting under LOW loads. In weaker, less slick rope, thorough stitching is all that is needed, but in high-modulus (HM) rope, stitches are likely to tear, as a "low" load might be a ton or more. So in our shop we think of the Brummel as something for initial security, but count on the tail for the heavy lifting.
If for some reason you don't want to or can't bury a tail, then a Multiple Brummel can be useful; properly done, you can generate in the high 70's of ultimate rope strength percentage.
And of course, the length of the tail will vary with the material being spliced, so for instance we use 16d. for Sta-Set-X, 24d for Dacron or Nylon braid, etc.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
As I understand it, the buried tail needs to generate enough friction for ultimate security, and the Brummel is there to keep the tail from shifting under LOW loads. In weaker, less slick rope, thorough stitching is all that is needed, but in high-modulus (HM) rope, stitches are likely to tear, as a "low" load might be a ton or more. So in our shop we think of the Brummel as something for initial security, but count on the tail for the heavy lifting.
If for some reason you don't want to or can't bury a tail, then a Multiple Brummel can be useful; properly done, you can generate in the high 70's of ultimate rope strength percentage.
And of course, the length of the tail will vary with the material being spliced, so for instance we use 16d. for Sta-Set-X, 24d for Dacron or Nylon braid, etc.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
- Location
- St. Paul, MN
Wow! Thank you for the input Brion. What would be a minimum of crossovers for a multiple Brummel(3,4,5?)? Once completed, how would you recommend terminating the splice? Bury a token length of tail and stitch?
- Location
- Port Townsend, Washington
Hi again,
From tests we've done, I believe that strength started dropping off after 4 sets of locking Brummels. It's tricky to get a bearing on each Brummel, and of course distortions build up.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
From tests we've done, I believe that strength started dropping off after 4 sets of locking Brummels. It's tricky to get a bearing on each Brummel, and of course distortions build up.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
- Location
- St. Paul, MN
Thank you for the response. If I've thought this out correctly, the final crossover(furthest from the eye) should have the tail passing through the standing part and terminating in a lock-stitch or short bury to prevent raveling? Does that description make sense? It seems that having the standing part "pass through" the last bit of tail at the final crossover may leave the tail weak and/or vulnerable at this point. Perhaps either way is fine. Anyone care to share thoughts on this?
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
As long as you have enough buried before a taper begins, it matters little which gets passed through last.
If possible, I'd love to see a picture of how you think it should be done...What you're saying sounds like it MIGHT be right, but I'd prefer to see before being sure.
love
nick
If possible, I'd love to see a picture of how you think it should be done...What you're saying sounds like it MIGHT be right, but I'd prefer to see before being sure.
love
nick
- Location
- St. Paul, MN
NickfromWI
With the multiple Brummel I would like to get away with little or no bury as Brion Toss mentioned. Perhaps there must be at least SOME bury to keep the tail from raveling or could I possibly leave a few diameters of tail just "hanging out there" and whip/lock-stitch it. At this point I can't post pics 'cause I'm an idiot with PCs.
With the multiple Brummel I would like to get away with little or no bury as Brion Toss mentioned. Perhaps there must be at least SOME bury to keep the tail from raveling or could I possibly leave a few diameters of tail just "hanging out there" and whip/lock-stitch it. At this point I can't post pics 'cause I'm an idiot with PCs.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
If a multiple brumell with NO bury (perhaps the end just whipped) could still hold enough of a load, that'd be a GREAT splice for hitch cords. More streamlined than a conventional knot without the stiffness typically associated with the splice.
Brion, how do we determine how many locks need to be made to hold a good 70% of the load?
I'm assuming that a looser woven rope would need more locks?
love
nick
Brion, how do we determine how many locks need to be made to hold a good 70% of the load?
I'm assuming that a looser woven rope would need more locks?
love
nick
- Location
- Port Townsend, Washington
The last tuck will have the standing part going through the tail. That way, the tail cannot come untucked. You could bury a short length of tail, but it's just as good to seize/tape the end to prevent raveling.
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
Fair leads,
Brion Toss
- Location
- Port Townsend, Washington
Hi Nick,
The looseness of the weave doesn't appear to affect the strength of the Brummel; rather, it is the spacing of the locks. To get the spacing right, try making the first Brummel and see how many pics between parts there are when it's drawn up fair. You can always pull the thing super-tight, so the parts lock together, but it is obviously foul and contorted. Likewise you could have a lot of slack, but then there's no bearing.
Fair leads,
Brion
The looseness of the weave doesn't appear to affect the strength of the Brummel; rather, it is the spacing of the locks. To get the spacing right, try making the first Brummel and see how many pics between parts there are when it's drawn up fair. You can always pull the thing super-tight, so the parts lock together, but it is obviously foul and contorted. Likewise you could have a lot of slack, but then there's no bearing.
Fair leads,
Brion
- Location
- St. Paul, MN
Brion,
Thank you very much for the clarification. Now if someone could figure out how to invert and re-invert 4 or 5 crossovers... hmmmm, I think I'll have to run the entire standing part through for this one.
Nick,
I agree with you. This will make a wonderful hitch splice if done correctly.
Thank you very much for the clarification. Now if someone could figure out how to invert and re-invert 4 or 5 crossovers... hmmmm, I think I'll have to run the entire standing part through for this one.
Nick,
I agree with you. This will make a wonderful hitch splice if done correctly.
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Mobius Brummell.....
Lumberjack
Branched out member
Nick I DO have shorter loopies, I can help you picked some of the longer ones out!
I gotta whip up some smaller 3/4" loopies for use with the GRCS and the high mod lines. Gotta splice the shorter one up, its seeing use next week I believe... perhaps I could just DWT with the 290'?
I gotta whip up some smaller 3/4" loopies for use with the GRCS and the high mod lines. Gotta splice the shorter one up, its seeing use next week I believe... perhaps I could just DWT with the 290'?
NickfromWI
Participating member
- Location
- Los Angeles, CA
Yes, all the time. Single carrier means thicker, more abrasion resistant strands. However, the gaps between the strands is a little bigger, so there's a higher rate of tail poppage...which isn't a problem...just cosmetically inferior.
I prefer 2 carrier single braids...especially for climbing equipment.
love
nick
I prefer 2 carrier single braids...especially for climbing equipment.
love
nick
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