- Location
- North of Boston
I do!
Dont really care for hacks, or their opinions BTW.
Dont really care for hacks, or their opinions BTW.
bradford pear
- Thread starter 123Deboralee
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
[ QUOTE ]
I hope you know more about trees than you know about my age.
You are getting pretty low sir to call me old
[/ QUOTE ]
So, how about clearing this up. Lots of accusations going around and you could disarm your critics. Are you a hack, an arborist, or what?
I hope you know more about trees than you know about my age.
You are getting pretty low sir to call me old
[/ QUOTE ]
So, how about clearing this up. Lots of accusations going around and you could disarm your critics. Are you a hack, an arborist, or what?
[ QUOTE ]
"This Debbie person should be banned from the forum as they are a complete fraud and false personality of another user."
So how about the dirt man. Who was it???
[/ QUOTE ]
It was Debbie, I am the one in the foreground, and you are making a really big mistake to try and ban someone from this or any other site just because they disagree with you. Your decendents will have to live in the world that you create....they will, for one thing, have no say over how their trees are trimmed or even who will do it, it will be only people who are allowed BY LAW to trim trees; ISA certified. It will be Huxlys Brave new world.
This reminds me of the seventh day adventists who want a law passed that they can not be fired because they won't work on saturday and then realize that they lost the freedom to fire muslims who worked for them but wouldn't work on friday. Just keep on trying to get more laws passed;
you all still have just a little bit of freedom left to be different.
"This Debbie person should be banned from the forum as they are a complete fraud and false personality of another user."
So how about the dirt man. Who was it???
[/ QUOTE ]
It was Debbie, I am the one in the foreground, and you are making a really big mistake to try and ban someone from this or any other site just because they disagree with you. Your decendents will have to live in the world that you create....they will, for one thing, have no say over how their trees are trimmed or even who will do it, it will be only people who are allowed BY LAW to trim trees; ISA certified. It will be Huxlys Brave new world.
This reminds me of the seventh day adventists who want a law passed that they can not be fired because they won't work on saturday and then realize that they lost the freedom to fire muslims who worked for them but wouldn't work on friday. Just keep on trying to get more laws passed;
you all still have just a little bit of freedom left to be different.
Attachments
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I hope you know more about trees than you know about my age.
You are getting pretty low sir to call me old
[/ QUOTE ]
So, how about clearing this up. Lots of accusations going around and you could disarm your critics. Are you a hack, an arborist, or what?
[/ QUOTE ]
I cannot seem to disarm my critics because they only know what is written in their big bad ISA JUH IUY TDS NIM rule books. I feel sorry for all of the parrots out there. I have a brain and I use it. My husband has worked accident free for 30+ years, (He learned to cut trees in a barn yard as a kid) and Several ISA certified workers in our town have been injured because even though they had a big bad sticker on their shiny unpaid for truck they wouldn't follow the rules that they swore to keep--all ten billion trillion of them with many many more on the way.
[ QUOTE ]
I hope you know more about trees than you know about my age.
You are getting pretty low sir to call me old
[/ QUOTE ]
So, how about clearing this up. Lots of accusations going around and you could disarm your critics. Are you a hack, an arborist, or what?
[/ QUOTE ]
I cannot seem to disarm my critics because they only know what is written in their big bad ISA JUH IUY TDS NIM rule books. I feel sorry for all of the parrots out there. I have a brain and I use it. My husband has worked accident free for 30+ years, (He learned to cut trees in a barn yard as a kid) and Several ISA certified workers in our town have been injured because even though they had a big bad sticker on their shiny unpaid for truck they wouldn't follow the rules that they swore to keep--all ten billion trillion of them with many many more on the way.
I AM NOT A HACK.
BTW...it looks to me like Boston is topping a tree in his side picture every time he post his Boston Bullshi* on here.
BTW...it looks to me like Boston is topping a tree in his side picture every time he post his Boston Bullshi* on here.
"the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties" Barack Hussein Obama
what do you know about liberty Bull?
what do you know about liberty Bull?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Check Debbie's other posts... I'm guessing, not a troll.
Maybe we should ease up on the accusations. This is a WOMAN involved in tree work... don't we want more of them?
Debbie,
By now you've noticed we've got some delicate egos around here and some issues, like topping Bradfords, are hot buttons. You asked a legit question and there were some legit answers mixed in with the bickering.
If you want a final word, I suggest you try to decipher what GuyMayor said... he's worked on a Bradford or two. I'm sure you know topping is bad because it severely reduces the tree's health by making it use more food than it can store... which, if sustained, will kill any tree.
Bradfords are stupidly tough trees though and they get rangy as hell with boles full of included bark. UNC staff arborists are more or less topping most of the Bradfords on campus now. I think there's research to be done because those trees are thriving. What's better, a severe structural pruning or a half the tree tearing out in a thunderstorm?
Look at it with an 8 year perspective. If the tree can be pruned in phases and maintained rather than just whacked and left, it will probably remain viable. The key is structural pruning, not just lopping off everything above a given height.
And, welcome to the Buzz.
Maybe we should ease up on the accusations. This is a WOMAN involved in tree work... don't we want more of them?
Debbie,
By now you've noticed we've got some delicate egos around here and some issues, like topping Bradfords, are hot buttons. You asked a legit question and there were some legit answers mixed in with the bickering.
If you want a final word, I suggest you try to decipher what GuyMayor said... he's worked on a Bradford or two. I'm sure you know topping is bad because it severely reduces the tree's health by making it use more food than it can store... which, if sustained, will kill any tree.
Bradfords are stupidly tough trees though and they get rangy as hell with boles full of included bark. UNC staff arborists are more or less topping most of the Bradfords on campus now. I think there's research to be done because those trees are thriving. What's better, a severe structural pruning or a half the tree tearing out in a thunderstorm?
Look at it with an 8 year perspective. If the tree can be pruned in phases and maintained rather than just whacked and left, it will probably remain viable. The key is structural pruning, not just lopping off everything above a given height.
And, welcome to the Buzz.
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
Debbie-
If you are an arborist, you are a tree care professional. As a tree care professional you are charged with the care of trees. Making money at a profession is secondary. As professionals, we do not exist to make and collect money, we exist to hopefully better ourselves and those around us, while performing a service that we excel at.
The following is a definition of a profession, which I hope that we as arborists can strive to be:
"A capable body of individuals, who, using a carefully scripted and described body of knowledge, use that knowledge to advance society's interests rather than private interests."
In other words, it's not all about what your client wants to pay you to do. YOU are the pro, YOU set the standards on your client's property, and in doing so, you add value to their homes and property, and to what is probably the biggest investment they will ever make. Anything less is unacceptable. Doing what the client asks because 'It's their tree' is irresponsible, and those that cite personal freedoms in this regard need to find a more rational argument.
-Tom
If you are an arborist, you are a tree care professional. As a tree care professional you are charged with the care of trees. Making money at a profession is secondary. As professionals, we do not exist to make and collect money, we exist to hopefully better ourselves and those around us, while performing a service that we excel at.
The following is a definition of a profession, which I hope that we as arborists can strive to be:
"A capable body of individuals, who, using a carefully scripted and described body of knowledge, use that knowledge to advance society's interests rather than private interests."
In other words, it's not all about what your client wants to pay you to do. YOU are the pro, YOU set the standards on your client's property, and in doing so, you add value to their homes and property, and to what is probably the biggest investment they will ever make. Anything less is unacceptable. Doing what the client asks because 'It's their tree' is irresponsible, and those that cite personal freedoms in this regard need to find a more rational argument.
-Tom
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can I trim a bradford pear that is 25' down to 10' and be sure it will survive?
[/ QUOTE ]Sure, it will survive. [ QUOTE ]
Is there a special time of year that in spite of this severity will insure it's survival?
[/ QUOTE ]Late summer will make less sprouting than late winter, which may be less stressful for the tree. Avoid spring and fall.
No reason to refuse this assignment that I can see, if aftercare is contracted. It can be accomplished without topping. One troll policy--play it straight; don't bite!
Simple questions, simple answers. Let's cool the anti-topping passion. So much emotion expressed here by several that need to read ANSI so they have a clue wtf they are agonizing about. Otherwise all your dogma will be run over by karma.
Information anywhere can become inbred, as ideas are repeated back and forth like an echo chamber within an isolated group of people. Only by crosschecking your facts between a range of sources, experience and references can you confirm their reliability.
[/ QUOTE ]
I want to say thank you for being the only person here to truly answer my question. You are a real gentleman. I do not wish to make a tree ugly (whatever that would be) I care about trees and flowers and children and many many things. But I don't take kindly to people telling me or others what we can do with our own stuff. The future, with this attitude in many peoples hearts, scares me terriably.
[ QUOTE ]
Can I trim a bradford pear that is 25' down to 10' and be sure it will survive?
[/ QUOTE ]Sure, it will survive. [ QUOTE ]
Is there a special time of year that in spite of this severity will insure it's survival?
[/ QUOTE ]Late summer will make less sprouting than late winter, which may be less stressful for the tree. Avoid spring and fall.
No reason to refuse this assignment that I can see, if aftercare is contracted. It can be accomplished without topping. One troll policy--play it straight; don't bite!
Simple questions, simple answers. Let's cool the anti-topping passion. So much emotion expressed here by several that need to read ANSI so they have a clue wtf they are agonizing about. Otherwise all your dogma will be run over by karma.
Information anywhere can become inbred, as ideas are repeated back and forth like an echo chamber within an isolated group of people. Only by crosschecking your facts between a range of sources, experience and references can you confirm their reliability.
[/ QUOTE ]
I want to say thank you for being the only person here to truly answer my question. You are a real gentleman. I do not wish to make a tree ugly (whatever that would be) I care about trees and flowers and children and many many things. But I don't take kindly to people telling me or others what we can do with our own stuff. The future, with this attitude in many peoples hearts, scares me terriably.
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
Please see my previous post with regard to your fear of regulation. Discriminating professionals deciding what services should be provided should not be confused with Nazi Germany or Communist Russia. No offense, but IMO, too many people confuse professional regulation with other types of regulation unfairly. Your Huxley reference is exhibit 'A.'
-Tom
-Tom
six pages with tons of name calling and even a threat of legal action all for two simple questions...are we really professional?
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Tom, that's good advice but I have to take issue with this one...
[ QUOTE ]
Doing what the client asks because 'It's their tree' is irresponsible, and those that cite personal freedoms in this regard need to find a more rational argument."
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's why:
We are indeed tree care professionals... URBAN tree care professionals. That implies people are involved, not just trees. To me, an arborist has to serve as intermediary between humans and trees. Trees without humans around don't need care, it's the human thing that causes urban trees to have issues. Ignoring the human side is a failure as intermediary.
I'm not saying do whatever the customer says. You are right that the professional should set the standards and educate the customer... but the customer OWNS the tree, they get to do whatever they choose within the law. We have to honor their choices whether we choose to do the work or walk away. Another arborist may see it differently and a hack certainly will.
I think the best thing we can do in a case like this is educate the customer and hope they choose well... but if they don't, well... it's THEIR tree.
[ QUOTE ]
Doing what the client asks because 'It's their tree' is irresponsible, and those that cite personal freedoms in this regard need to find a more rational argument."
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's why:
We are indeed tree care professionals... URBAN tree care professionals. That implies people are involved, not just trees. To me, an arborist has to serve as intermediary between humans and trees. Trees without humans around don't need care, it's the human thing that causes urban trees to have issues. Ignoring the human side is a failure as intermediary.
I'm not saying do whatever the customer says. You are right that the professional should set the standards and educate the customer... but the customer OWNS the tree, they get to do whatever they choose within the law. We have to honor their choices whether we choose to do the work or walk away. Another arborist may see it differently and a hack certainly will.
I think the best thing we can do in a case like this is educate the customer and hope they choose well... but if they don't, well... it's THEIR tree.
[ QUOTE ]
Please see my previous post with regard to your fear of regulation. Discriminating professionals deciding what services should be provided should not be confused with Nazi Germany or Communist Russia. No offense, but IMO, too many people confuse professional regulation with other types of regulation unfairly. Your Huxley reference is exhibit 'A.'
-Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
I respect your opinion but I still say that you are wrong; one day you may be in a nursing home and you may be forced to take drugs that you know are harmful and every one around you will say..."the doctor said so"
Please see my previous post with regard to your fear of regulation. Discriminating professionals deciding what services should be provided should not be confused with Nazi Germany or Communist Russia. No offense, but IMO, too many people confuse professional regulation with other types of regulation unfairly. Your Huxley reference is exhibit 'A.'
-Tom
[/ QUOTE ]
I respect your opinion but I still say that you are wrong; one day you may be in a nursing home and you may be forced to take drugs that you know are harmful and every one around you will say..."the doctor said so"
[ QUOTE ]
Tom, that's good advice but I have to take issue with this one...
[ QUOTE ]
Doing what the client asks because 'It's their tree' is irresponsible, and those that cite personal freedoms in this regard need to find a more rational argument."
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's why:
We are indeed tree care professionals... URBAN tree care professionals. That implies people are involved, not just trees. To me, an arborist has to serve as intermediary between humans and trees. Trees without humans around don't need care, it's the human thing that causes urban trees to have issues. Ignoring the human side is a failure as intermediary.
I'm not saying do whatever the customer says. You are right that the professional should set the standards and educate the customer... but the customer OWNS the tree, they get to do whatever they choose within the law. We have to honor their choices whether we choose to do the work or walk away. Another arborist may see it differently and a hack certainly will.
I think the best thing we can do in a case like this is educate the customer and hope they choose well... but if they don't, well... it's THEIR tree.
[/ QUOTE ]
thank you
Tom, that's good advice but I have to take issue with this one...
[ QUOTE ]
Doing what the client asks because 'It's their tree' is irresponsible, and those that cite personal freedoms in this regard need to find a more rational argument."
[/ QUOTE ]
Here's why:
We are indeed tree care professionals... URBAN tree care professionals. That implies people are involved, not just trees. To me, an arborist has to serve as intermediary between humans and trees. Trees without humans around don't need care, it's the human thing that causes urban trees to have issues. Ignoring the human side is a failure as intermediary.
I'm not saying do whatever the customer says. You are right that the professional should set the standards and educate the customer... but the customer OWNS the tree, they get to do whatever they choose within the law. We have to honor their choices whether we choose to do the work or walk away. Another arborist may see it differently and a hack certainly will.
I think the best thing we can do in a case like this is educate the customer and hope they choose well... but if they don't, well... it's THEIR tree.
[/ QUOTE ]
thank you
- Location
- North of Boston
[ QUOTE ]
I AM NOT A HACK.
BTW...it looks to me like Boston is topping a tree in his side picture every time he post his Boston Bullshi* on here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your dumber than I thought, thats a crane pick hunny. W'll start slow though, and start by learning NOT to top trees, and do whats best for the trees.
By your thought process the ISA, ANSI, and Dr Shigo are all parrots who say/write things just to gain a following and have their thoughts put into law?
I AM NOT A HACK.
BTW...it looks to me like Boston is topping a tree in his side picture every time he post his Boston Bullshi* on here.
[/ QUOTE ]
Your dumber than I thought, thats a crane pick hunny. W'll start slow though, and start by learning NOT to top trees, and do whats best for the trees.
By your thought process the ISA, ANSI, and Dr Shigo are all parrots who say/write things just to gain a following and have their thoughts put into law?
tomthetreeman
Participating member
- Location
- Rhode Island
Blinky, I get what you're saying, and I agree, hence this part of my post:
"In other words, it's not all about what your client wants to pay you to do. YOU are the pro, YOU set the standards on your client's property, and in doing so, you add value to their homes and property, and to what is probably the biggest investment they will ever make."
I believe that our responsibility is to care for valuable trees, repair savable trees, and remove trees that devalue our clients' property. Consumer education is the key. I wrote an article for Arb News a couple years ago about this very subject; I don't think you and I disagree at all.
-Tom
"In other words, it's not all about what your client wants to pay you to do. YOU are the pro, YOU set the standards on your client's property, and in doing so, you add value to their homes and property, and to what is probably the biggest investment they will ever make."
I believe that our responsibility is to care for valuable trees, repair savable trees, and remove trees that devalue our clients' property. Consumer education is the key. I wrote an article for Arb News a couple years ago about this very subject; I don't think you and I disagree at all.
-Tom
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
[ QUOTE ]
six pages with tons of name calling and even a threat of legal action all for two simple questions...are we really professional?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, yeah, we are. That's one of the things pros do, debate controversial issues and hopefully improve understanding for all concerned... arguing is good as long as it's civil.
The name calling thing was an overreaction, plain and simple. Happens all the time on internet forums... no body language to fill in the gaps.
We should all get a grip here and stop bickering... talking smack is a hell of a lot more fun. I guess once in a while we can throw some tree care stuff in too.
six pages with tons of name calling and even a threat of legal action all for two simple questions...are we really professional?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, yeah, we are. That's one of the things pros do, debate controversial issues and hopefully improve understanding for all concerned... arguing is good as long as it's civil.
The name calling thing was an overreaction, plain and simple. Happens all the time on internet forums... no body language to fill in the gaps.
We should all get a grip here and stop bickering... talking smack is a hell of a lot more fun. I guess once in a while we can throw some tree care stuff in too.
- Location
- North of Boston
[ QUOTE ]
"the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties" Barack Hussein Obama
what do you know about liberty Bull?
[/ QUOTE ]
What would you like to know ma'am? i know our president is a socialist, and you 'prune' trees like a hack!
"the Constitution is a charter of negative liberties" Barack Hussein Obama
what do you know about liberty Bull?
[/ QUOTE ]
What would you like to know ma'am? i know our president is a socialist, and you 'prune' trees like a hack!
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
Aw geeez!
- Location
- North of Boston
WOW!!!!!!!!!!
This is futile arguing with someone who already knows everything.
This is futile arguing with someone who already knows everything.
- Status
