Bidding--Pruning Fruit Trees vs. pruning large ...

[southsoundtree]

So its getting into fruit tree pruning season.

I don't know what anybody else thinks about this (so voice your thoughts), does fruit tree pruning seem like people will demand a lower per-hour price for the crew, as proper pruning of small trees is much more accessible to more people than say, dismantling a large tree over targets? As well, the scale of equipment doesn't need to be as large, as it could be easy to haul off the pruned materials more easily than with large trees.

What seems like market value as compared to other tree pruning?


How do you think that the market value of proper pruning and tree care compared to that of tree removal?

 

[kellyp]

sean, yes, i would agree that fruit treee pruning would merit a rate than big tree prunings, takedowns etc. there will also obviously be alot less greenwaste to dispose of and lots less risk etc. here there would be an advantage to smaller operators who can vary their trucks/equipment/crew to the specifics of the job, rather than the big compnaies like bartlett who have a high overhead no matter what, and whose hourly rate starts when their garage doors roll up and their trucks roll out.
fruit tree work can also include winterizing types of maintenance like removing mulch (or mulching, depending on the location) and removing fallen fruit, leaves etc that may harbor fungi...
i feel like alot of those i have worked with would charge the same hourly rate no matter what, figuring that it all evens out in the end, that there is easy money, and then there is harder money...
myself, i would prefer a variable rate, and i would actually prefer to vary it by charging a certain amount for the pruning work (including the setting and retrieving of lines), and lower rates for the cleanup, depending on the situation. for instance, if we are cutting it into firewood lengths, leaving it, picking up sticks etc. i like to think they pay me for my skills as a pruner and my knowledge of trees, not because of my raking skills.
so, lets see, i generally bid lump sums, and a fruit tree job is bid lower mostly because i expect it to be easy, and to take alot less time and effort. so i guess the rate is less mostly due to the time spent, and not exactly because i lowered the hourly rate.
does that make sense?

 

[southsoundtree]

Kelly,

What you said does make sense within its own parameters.

The time factor being less is not always true. Yesterday, I pruned and installed a Cobra Cable in a Mulberry tree (35', slimy, hard to climb, needing double TIP (which became extra useful when the customer said that she wanted the cable afterall)). At the same time my groundman/ apprentice climber pruned a super-out-of-control apple tree, watersprouts everywhere.
Both took about the same amount of time. Lets ignore the Cobra material expense for a minute.
It seems that while both were pruning that took skill, risk (sometimes slick conditions with an orchard ladder seems more dangerous than high up with a double TIP in other trees), insurance, wages, etc. My guess is that most people will still not want to pay as much per hour, as it seems that more people can do the apple.

Is all tree pruning not created equally?

As you mention takedowns versus fruit tree pruning, I'd say sometimes a couple hours of takedown is easier than a couple hours of fruit tree pruning. All chainsaw cuts with no need to get a proper pruning cut, versus hundred of handsaw cuts, tangled watersprouts to wrestle out of the trees, sometimes on a ladder, etc. Risk of damage is a factor, but on a basic takedown, this can be very well mitigated.

I suspect that part of the deal is selling PROPER pruning, and explaining what all is involved. To some degree, it seems that it should be more per hour for pruning, as a run of the mill spike removal climber can handle a 40' doug-fir with ease.

I need to get my Bidding/ Consultation binder in order so that I can show clear cut picture examples of what we do, and what we avoid doing for all of our work. Pictures do speak a thousand words, and consumer education is key to showing the value of proper work.


BTW, I'm running a flexible equipment set-up--9" chipper, 13 yard dump truck, longbed pick-up with an extended wall bed, and smaller and larger trailers with walls. This helps me to match equipment to the need and keep my overhead lower, in that I don't need to take chipper/ dump truck everywhere, but have them when I need them.
Certain things are variable expenses and certain expenses are fixed.

 

[Noel]

I always tell the customer that my costs per hour for running that crew at their property is the same whether the guys are rigging removals, chipping brush, or hand pruning yews. This is usually actually true, but with that being said, higher risk work demands a higher price, due to the risk itself. The likelyhood of having to come back and fix something is very low when they are hand pruning yews, much higher when rigging over a room of glass skylights. Of course rigging work means that you pull more specialized gear out of the truck and use it, which costs more money as you wear it out as well.

 

[tomthetreeman]

Noel, I usually say the same, and it keeps me away from mundane work like hedges, etc. Of course, since I am part time, I am picking and choosing, whereas a full time company may want to diversify to keep crews busy.

With the above being said, and knowing what I know about fruit tree pruning, I would not want an unskilled or novice arborist working on my fruit trees (if I had any). IMO, fruit tree pruning takes alot of skill, practice, and an eye for this type of structure. If a client of mine wanted to pay me to maintain their fruit trees, I would do it for top dollar. The first cycle would cost more, and as I got the trees how I (we) wanted them, I could breeze through the work.

I guess what I'm saying is that with this basic question we may be over simplifying the realm of fruit tree pruning. This is a great quote from southsound:

"As you mention takedowns versus fruit tree pruning, I'd say sometimes a couple hours of takedown is easier than a couple hours of fruit tree pruning. All chainsaw cuts with no need to get a proper pruning cut, versus hundred of handsaw cuts, tangled watersprouts to wrestle out of the trees, sometimes on a ladder, etc. Risk of damage is a factor, but on a basic takedown, this can be very well mitigated."


-Tom

 

[Jamin_Mayer]

I charge the same rates for fruit tree trimming. I'll typically sell a lot (well alot for me) of fruit tree jobs in the summer and line a bunch up for the winter. I've got 2 weeks of fruit tree trimming in December. Not a whole lot, but a jump start for the winter...

What I don't like is that small trees need a lot of forethought and therefore seem to take more time (pound for pound). --If I can use that metaphore...

But, the time spent in fruit trees is rewarding. Fruit trees can take on some beautiful characteristics & shapes.

 

[southsoundtree]

TomTheTreeMan,

I wonder if customers regard it as a lesser skilled job than pruning that requires high, spikelss climbing and such. I recognize that there are a lot of specialized skills involved, and knowledge as well. I didn't want to seem like I was downplaying it.

 

[rfwoodvt]

I think Noel is on to something there. As a rule, our hourly expenses do not change based on the type of job. Yes, there are some extra incurred expenses often based upon the job (additional climbers, special equipment rentals) but by and large our hourly rates shouldn't change that much.

Having said that though, the relative costs to prune fruit trees shouldn't be negatively affected by that as many perceive that it would.

This is simply because the same crew has fewer committed tasks for fruit pruning than it does for shade tree work.

For example on a shade tree prune the groundies are likely committed to rigging, rope tending and dragging brush. Where as on a fruit tree pruning they are free to pick up a pruning tool to help the job along.

We still bid our flowering/fruit tree pruning using our hourly rate and for the trees that have been neglected for a while, yes that adds up to some serious time. But for the regularly maintained trees we are able to whip through them pretty quick.

Either way, on balance, the time required and the hourly rate still make our pricing competitive.

About the only time I'll use a lower rate is when we change something to reduce our hourly expenses such as smaller crew, no chipper or box truck, leaving debris on site.

 

[Jamin_Mayer]

Wow. I had this thread on my mind today... I did two different jobs today with 21 ornamental trees (two guys). Hawthorns, Crabapples, and Plum trees. We also threw in some conifers and Aspens.

I think I'm going to have a bad dream of cutting out epicormics tonight!

 

[southsoundtree]

Thanks for the input.

I guess that the more you do something the easier it seems, and you forget the difficulty.

 

[mdvaden]

Typically, although fruit trees seem to require more labor per foot of height, I feel that its not easy to get highest dollar out of them. It requires more skill than the average homeowner realizes.

I don't go out of my way to get much a lot of that work, but do provide estimates for it. Generally, any new fruit tree pruning customers, which mainly entails apple and pear, is moved to the following holiday season between Thanksgiving and New Years. Generally, after the end of February, I prefer not to see any fruit trees. Seems that fruit trees yield in a day about 2/3 of what ornamental trees do for a hour's or day's income. And if done during the holidays, that's fine.

Been seeing more and more Asian pear trees lately, and those are pretty nice trees to work with.

Only did columnar apple trees once when in southern Oregon for a few years. Got a call to come to Ashland for those. About 12' tall with a few extra stems or leaders. Relatively tidy. I may want one just to have one at home.