I have tried many nots on my srt. But I have more often then when I need to lower myself with blakes, taught, or any variation of a preruk(sp?), They lock up and have to change over to a Dbpt for more control over my descent. Which is a giant pain cause then I have to go all the way up or take up a second climbing line. Any suggestions?
Best friction knot for srt?
- Thread starter Demo
- Start date
- Location
- New Hampshire
If your talking about the knot really siezing up one you I have a few solutions. 1) You could back up the knot with a figure eight friction device which takes the friction off the knot and puts it on the device. 2) You could buy a device know as the Gri- Gri, which works better than anything I've tried, plus it has many other options that make it a great purchase(In my opinion) I climb rock as well so i use it their also. That is actually where the Gri-Gri comes from. It is a rather expensive purchase i, somewhere along the line of $75.00.
I usually only use the SRT on a removal where i tie the running bowline technique and then use my gri- gri to decend.
I hope this helps you out some, i know when i wasn't useing the gri- gri I would just back up my prussik know with a figure eight and that worked much better than just a know alone.
Good luck, climb safe!!
I usually only use the SRT on a removal where i tie the running bowline technique and then use my gri- gri to decend.
I hope this helps you out some, i know when i wasn't useing the gri- gri I would just back up my prussik know with a figure eight and that worked much better than just a know alone.
Good luck, climb safe!!
TheTreeSpyder
Branched out member
- Location
- Florida>>> USA
i have a theory; based on why a square knot is a knot in loop back to self, and a sheet is a bend of 2 seperate lines in linear/not necessarily loop. In theory, a square knot is a knot, for it must be maid to it's own line (loop), not to join a seperate line; or it owuld be called a square bend.
A square knot pits the standing part against standing part, when most lacing strategies pit standing tension part aginst bitters. But doing that, makes a slippery thief knot in these less secure lacings class. A square knot, has the backside of the loop, as a buddy helper, to take the load/strain; if the knot side slips. Similarily; if supporting on 1 line and it starts to fail/stretch/slip, the load is in peril. If lowerign on 2 seperate lines, the buddy line takes the load automatically; if the other line starts to fail/stretch/slip. The system wants to work; but with a single line; has only single chance. The simplest knot lessons. Notice how until we come to a SheetBend, there is no real lock where the higher standing part tension can trap the bitters. The Square family is more to me like a slip/jam of not a higher force(standing part) trapping a lesser (bitters/working end), but of the less secure strategy of pitting equal parts agianst each other, and jamming. KnudeNoggin has a differnt theory on that i think...
i have taken small scales, and shown in DdRT, when you go to slide hitch to descend, the load shifts magically over to the 'static' leg; from the 'dynamic' leg the friction hitch is on. The hitch slides, cuz it unloads; as it's buddy/static leg thinks it the dynamic leg is slipping/stretching/failing. In SRT; the hitch stays loaded; as you try to make it slide; so only grips harder; as the system still wants to work/support you, and has no other option/ hitch can't unload to slide/ has no buddy line to take over load, to allow slide.
Tom, Mike Maas and others been trying to crack this longer than me now; but that is where i came to with it.
A square knot pits the standing part against standing part, when most lacing strategies pit standing tension part aginst bitters. But doing that, makes a slippery thief knot in these less secure lacings class. A square knot, has the backside of the loop, as a buddy helper, to take the load/strain; if the knot side slips. Similarily; if supporting on 1 line and it starts to fail/stretch/slip, the load is in peril. If lowerign on 2 seperate lines, the buddy line takes the load automatically; if the other line starts to fail/stretch/slip. The system wants to work; but with a single line; has only single chance. The simplest knot lessons. Notice how until we come to a SheetBend, there is no real lock where the higher standing part tension can trap the bitters. The Square family is more to me like a slip/jam of not a higher force(standing part) trapping a lesser (bitters/working end), but of the less secure strategy of pitting equal parts agianst each other, and jamming. KnudeNoggin has a differnt theory on that i think...
i have taken small scales, and shown in DdRT, when you go to slide hitch to descend, the load shifts magically over to the 'static' leg; from the 'dynamic' leg the friction hitch is on. The hitch slides, cuz it unloads; as it's buddy/static leg thinks it the dynamic leg is slipping/stretching/failing. In SRT; the hitch stays loaded; as you try to make it slide; so only grips harder; as the system still wants to work/support you, and has no other option/ hitch can't unload to slide/ has no buddy line to take over load, to allow slide.
Tom, Mike Maas and others been trying to crack this longer than me now; but that is where i came to with it.
Demo, you can search the archives of this site and find all manner of friction hitches, but the truth is not one of them will satisfactorily allow you to descend from the tree Srt.
There are various mechanical devices that will allow you to descend Srt, but so far no one has yet devised a friction knot that will allow you to descend Srt like you can with friction knots using Dbrt.
Unless you're climbing 90-foot White Pines, why, in New Hampshire do you bother climbing Srt anyway? It seems to me Srt is most efficient in tall, excurrent trees, and in New Hampshire I'm thinking White Pines are about the only trees qualifying for that criterion.
I know there are exceptions when Srt is advantageous, such as when it's difficult to isolate a limb when setting the line, but otherwise I'd think most trees up there are most efficiently climbed Ddrt to begin with.
There are various mechanical devices that will allow you to descend Srt, but so far no one has yet devised a friction knot that will allow you to descend Srt like you can with friction knots using Dbrt.
Unless you're climbing 90-foot White Pines, why, in New Hampshire do you bother climbing Srt anyway? It seems to me Srt is most efficient in tall, excurrent trees, and in New Hampshire I'm thinking White Pines are about the only trees qualifying for that criterion.
I know there are exceptions when Srt is advantageous, such as when it's difficult to isolate a limb when setting the line, but otherwise I'd think most trees up there are most efficiently climbed Ddrt to begin with.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Finding a good SRT hitch is becoming my Search for the Holy Grail. Call me Roger the Shrubber,
Roger the Shrubber: Are you saying Ni to that old woman?
King Arthur: Um, yes.
Roger the Shrubber: Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history.
King Arthur: Did you say shrubberies?
Roger the Shrubber: Yes, shrubberies are my trade. I am a shrubber. My name is Roger the Shrubber. I arrange, design, and sell shrubberies.
There are some really complex expectations from the hitch while on SRT. Since everyone weighs different and climbing styles vary so much it's going to be hard to predict how a hitch will work. The rope and hitch cord are two more variables.
The best luck that I've had with SRT hitches is using HRC cord from New England and KMIII 7/16" static line. The Knut seems to be a little better. Distel works pretty well too.
Be very sure that you tie stopper knots below your friction hitch as you work your way through the experiments. the stoppers will limit how far you could slip if everything goes pear-shaped on you.
What rope and cord have you been using?
Roger the Shrubber: Are you saying Ni to that old woman?
King Arthur: Um, yes.
Roger the Shrubber: Oh, what sad times are these when passing ruffians can say Ni at will to old ladies. There is a pestilence upon this land, nothing is sacred. Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress in this period in history.
King Arthur: Did you say shrubberies?
Roger the Shrubber: Yes, shrubberies are my trade. I am a shrubber. My name is Roger the Shrubber. I arrange, design, and sell shrubberies.
There are some really complex expectations from the hitch while on SRT. Since everyone weighs different and climbing styles vary so much it's going to be hard to predict how a hitch will work. The rope and hitch cord are two more variables.
The best luck that I've had with SRT hitches is using HRC cord from New England and KMIII 7/16" static line. The Knut seems to be a little better. Distel works pretty well too.
Be very sure that you tie stopper knots below your friction hitch as you work your way through the experiments. the stoppers will limit how far you could slip if everything goes pear-shaped on you.
What rope and cord have you been using?
- Location
- Baltimore, MD.
I use about the same setup as Tom mentioned: MK III (Max), HRC, and Knute hitch with extra wraps. You can experiment with more wraps to reduce friction during descent.
In reality, for most descents, I now use a Trango Cinch. It costs about $55 - $60 and is worth every penny. Once up as high as you plan on going, you can switch over to the Cinch and use it for work-positioning or descent.
See previous post of mine below ( http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.p...=true#Post31131 ):
I like the Knut a lot. I use HRC hitch cord and KM III Max for my climbing line. For my setup, a 5-wrap coil plus the final wrap to make the half hitch/marl (6 wraps total) works fine in both SRT and DdRT.
You have to experiment with the number of wraps and keep the legs short. The fewer the wraps the harder it seems to grip, so depending on your climbing line and hitch cord you may have to vary the number of wraps to get the resistance you're looking for.
Here's a couple of threads that had some good discussion:
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26834&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=28123&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
Hope this helps and good luck,
Jim
In reality, for most descents, I now use a Trango Cinch. It costs about $55 - $60 and is worth every penny. Once up as high as you plan on going, you can switch over to the Cinch and use it for work-positioning or descent.
See previous post of mine below ( http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.p...=true#Post31131 ):
I like the Knut a lot. I use HRC hitch cord and KM III Max for my climbing line. For my setup, a 5-wrap coil plus the final wrap to make the half hitch/marl (6 wraps total) works fine in both SRT and DdRT.
You have to experiment with the number of wraps and keep the legs short. The fewer the wraps the harder it seems to grip, so depending on your climbing line and hitch cord you may have to vary the number of wraps to get the resistance you're looking for.
Here's a couple of threads that had some good discussion:
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=26834&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=28123&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
Hope this helps and good luck,
Jim
- Location
- Baltimore, MD.
Leon, great. I'm glad you like it.
Demo, I think, generally, a smaller diameter cord is used for the hitch cord. Actually, so the hitch will grab reliably. You do need some kind of back up/fall arrest protection.
Can you describe in detail your setup? Do you footlock; use a Pantin? How do you set/tie-off your line?
As TheTreeSpyder stated during descent via SRT the hitch stays loaded. For me, tha Knute has worked well, but with one or two extra wraps, depending on the climbing line I'm using. I've been very happy with HRC for my hitch cord, but, as I said previously, I don't descend on my hitch anymore, but rather use the Trango Cinch.
It's interesting: everone has their preferred setup, which works well for them. I'm still trying to find mine. I like a minimun of gear, or at least gear that is easily removed and light in weight. I've got some Yates Ascenders that I'm going to try soon. For ascent, coupled with the Pantin, I think I'll be getting close to my happy point. For descent my happy point has been reached: Trango Cinch.
The figure of eight works but can cause marls (I think that's the term.) in the rope. A friend of mine used to use that technique and, after a while, he womdered why he spun around so much as he descended.
For a good write-up on hitches look in the Articles section for Mark's 'An Overview of Climbing Hitches' - a very good read.
Below is a link to a thread that discusses the Knute and Mark Chisholm's favorite (at the time, anyway) the XT version of the VT.. Mark describes how to tie it at the end of the thread. I've been meaning to try that one but haven't yet. There's also a hitch discussed by Lazarus2 called the Eye-Tie. I've been wanting to try that too, but haven't as of yet.
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=28123&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
Take a look at the thread below. Guys have posted pictures of their SRT work setup.
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.p...=true#Post26948
Demo, I think, generally, a smaller diameter cord is used for the hitch cord. Actually, so the hitch will grab reliably. You do need some kind of back up/fall arrest protection.
Can you describe in detail your setup? Do you footlock; use a Pantin? How do you set/tie-off your line?
As TheTreeSpyder stated during descent via SRT the hitch stays loaded. For me, tha Knute has worked well, but with one or two extra wraps, depending on the climbing line I'm using. I've been very happy with HRC for my hitch cord, but, as I said previously, I don't descend on my hitch anymore, but rather use the Trango Cinch.
It's interesting: everone has their preferred setup, which works well for them. I'm still trying to find mine. I like a minimun of gear, or at least gear that is easily removed and light in weight. I've got some Yates Ascenders that I'm going to try soon. For ascent, coupled with the Pantin, I think I'll be getting close to my happy point. For descent my happy point has been reached: Trango Cinch.
The figure of eight works but can cause marls (I think that's the term.) in the rope. A friend of mine used to use that technique and, after a while, he womdered why he spun around so much as he descended.
For a good write-up on hitches look in the Articles section for Mark's 'An Overview of Climbing Hitches' - a very good read.
Below is a link to a thread that discusses the Knute and Mark Chisholm's favorite (at the time, anyway) the XT version of the VT.. Mark describes how to tie it at the end of the thread. I've been meaning to try that one but haven't yet. There's also a hitch discussed by Lazarus2 called the Eye-Tie. I've been wanting to try that too, but haven't as of yet.
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=28123&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1
Take a look at the thread below. Guys have posted pictures of their SRT work setup.
http://www.treebuzz.com/forum/showflat.p...=true#Post26948
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Today I got to see the latest version of the UniCender. It is WAY WICKED COOL!!! Morgan let me take some pictures but I won't have time to get them edited and loaded until the weekend. Stay tuned!
- Location
- Ontario, Canada
I don't want to spoil the surprise but what the heck ...
uni
http://www.thompsontreetools.com/index.php
/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
uni
http://www.thompsontreetools.com/index.php
/forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Roger_Barnett
Participating member
- Location
- Seattle, in the PNWet
Tom, you're using a Unicender, aren't you?
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Morgan has an easy fix for the wear issues on the Uni1. Mine will be going home with him for the update. he's going to build me a Uni2. AS soon as I get some flight time with the Uni2 I'll post a field report.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
Yes, that was the Uni1. Now he has a retro fit to be able to account for wear on the firciton points. The Uni2 is so cool. Pics will be coming...
RogerM
Carpal tunnel level member
- Location
- Louisville,KY USA
Can you picture a dog sitting at your feet with those eyes, the panting, the salavating, as your eating your all day smoked ribs...(The day they make a soy bean taste like a steak, I'll become a vegetarian)...What does something like that cost, I'm very excited. Seems to have revolutionary potential. The only question I have is, when in the crown, aside from footlocking, how can you ascend short distances? (safely) i.e. up over a branch after getting the hanger.
treebing
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Detroit, Mi.
I have been thinking in my head about this subject, and I haven't tried it yet, but what about having two friction hitches one on top of the other? Like the top hitch would have long legs that would go over the bottom hitch. when decending, breaking the top one would push down on the bottom one.
If you had the right minders in place it should work acending as well.
I dont even know why I am posting this while not haveing experimented with it at all. It seems with prusics you need a back up, and why not two prussics that work in harmony but arrest individually. Unlike an eight or another decending device you wouldn't have to take it off to ascend. I'll get back to you after I mess around with it for a while.
If you had the right minders in place it should work acending as well.
I dont even know why I am posting this while not haveing experimented with it at all. It seems with prusics you need a back up, and why not two prussics that work in harmony but arrest individually. Unlike an eight or another decending device you wouldn't have to take it off to ascend. I'll get back to you after I mess around with it for a while.
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