Best cut for swinging limbs

CutHighnLetFly

CutHighnLetFly

Been here a while
Location
Cape Cod, MA
So disclaimer to this thread, techniques discussed here should not be tried in a "f*** it, let's try it" kinda setting because a lack of understanding of concepts by climber and ground guys could leave you getting wrecked.

What are people's preference of cut when one is trying to rig a limb to turn/swing 90* from the ground, swinging it over an obstacle (roofline, porch, etc)?
I'm talking without a spider leg. I never feel I need one and never use them. I balance tie. I'm torn between a nice wide notch and a thought out snap cut.
I think the snap cut requires more skill on the groundmans work, as it's more likely to pop free, potentially causing the butt to push back towards the tree. The notch is more controlled and predictable but moves slower and I think harder to play momentum because of the hinge.
Just curious what others think and do, like if I should just rock the spider leg, if it makes things that muh easier. Im pretty good with telling where's best to tie off tho....


@Pfanner man not to drag you into threads, but your input is of value, your rigging in videos speaks for itself.
 
I'm with you, wide notch unless you have an experienced man in the rope. If I need to balance the load, I sometimes use a short length of rope (dependent on limb length) tie a running bowline on the limb and attach it to my main rigging line with a taut-line (or Blake's hitch-any friction knot for that matter)and push up till it's "balanced". It's kind of a ghetto homemade spider leg cause you can add as many as you like to center it.
 
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It would depend on whether I want the limb to swing, essentially maintaining its orientation just shifting positions, or I wanted the tip to go ahead of the butt. First case, a snap cut. Second a wide notch. If I want it to settle or swing slow and the potential to tear beyond the collar is irrelevant then a tear cut can be helpful
 
Thanks guys, these are the answers I'm looking for. Limbloppa really like the simplicity of the makeshift spider legan that's awesome.
Levi and TH, I get what you guys are saying. The logic behind when to use either cut was missing to me, so thats very helpful.
 
I concur with Levi, I had to use this technique with several Sugar Maples over a friends house, that were leaners, to boot. Maples tear the bark really nice, when you want a slow controlled drop, and the groundie doesn't have to be a "Pro" to lower. Great Call Levi!
 
i appreciate the nod :tanguero:
the the answer to the question depends on alot of things for me, like type of tree/ wood characteristics, where the rigging point is and what's my clearance over the obstacle...
very generally speaking i use a notch. a straight up rip cut can be a bit unpredictable for most my scenarios but i will cut the side a ways in, then cut from the top leaving the bottom corner of compression wood (in the direction of intended swing) in some cases.
are you having the groundie break the limbs off the snap cut or are you pushing it?
 
It depends on the type of tree. Soft woods require more control with either of the 3 mentioned techniques. They tear to easily so I like to do an old school butt tie until the main rigging rope takes full control. Then slip the butt tie off the stub and groundie gets a tag line if needed. Or if needed, hang on the "butt rope" and use it to pull the rigging rope back to you. We all have are own views but ultimately it's what works for you safely.
 
All about type of wood you are cutting...down here I am blessed with hard ass trees and great hinge wood.....figuring out the mid tie is where experience has come into play....block placement is essential as Lawrence has mentioned...it is really a sweet skill....laymen love seeing it in action...swing that bitch and lay it in the hole...
 
I like having the larger Shizzel spider plate handy with some short hanks as it allows two or three point balance and can be used like a hub and straps for lowering several pieces at once. I do like the Blake's hitch method too, and you don't even need a separate piece, just clove or cow hitch your first point with a really long tail, run it to your second point, tie a running bowline with a long tail, and use that to tie the Blake's back to the line. It's super ghetto, but it works a charm and is really useful when you're only going to do it once.

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Pfanner man said:
i appreciate the nod :tanguero:
the the answer to the question depends on alot of things for me, like type of tree/ wood characteristics, where the rigging point is and what's my clearance over the obstacle...
very generally speaking i use a notch. a straight up rip cut can be a bit unpredictable for most my scenarios but i will cut the side a ways in, then cut from the top leaving the bottom corner of compression wood (in the direction of intended swing) in some cases.
are you having the groundie break the limbs off the snap cut or are you pushing it?
Click to expand...
Generally I'm "tripping" the cut with a little boot or punch. If I use 12 or 16 strand I an have the groundie dump the stretch back into the system and that will trip the cut.
If I decide I'm going to let the piece come off on its own, that's the point that's iffy. Snap cuts (when balanced and he rigging point is in a good spot) will push back on the point of the cut, so they swing perfect without the ground man playing the hinge which can be great. But as stated, kinda a bummer when it pops back and the GM just freezes in position with our letting the piece drop a little
 
I like the thought behind the peel cut it makes a lot of sense.
Really just trying to find the best way to blend my abilities with my groundman's. I'm no longer working with other climbers on the ground so it's causing me to reevaluate how I approach things. I worked with such quality people that they could bail me out of bad rigging set ups with good rope work. No longer the case. No bigs, I adapt.

Thanks everyone for their input, love reading rigging discussions.
 
Beaver cut! Notch and then nibble away at edges and interior of notch. Watch the pinch and let gravity do the work. Use or loose the compression and tension wood accordingly. Back cut not necessary at times. Practice on the ground when delimbing and you get the feel for how well sap wood will hinge. Like others have said a lot of variable with wood moisture being one of the greatest to consider
 
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