Battery explosions

evo

evo

Been here much more than a while
Location
My Island, WA
With the influx of Li battery tools in the industry and the inherent issues of fire and battery explosions what mitigation steps are you taking?
I admit I’m fairly careless keeping batteries in the tool frequently and having a pile of them in a bag stored in the cab to to keep them out of the elements.
IF a battery went in the saw tool box (bottom shelf) on the truck at a minimum all my rigging and saws would be gone. Ditto if the bag went in the cab, the truck would be toast.

I’m considering getting some ammo cans and make plywood dividers. The thought is if a battery went it would atleast be in an air tight container and hopefully contain the icky. It’s not practical for me to off load and reload all the batteries out of the truck at the end and start of the day.

What if anything do y’all do? Any cons to the ammo box idea?
 
Drill batteries have an excellent history in the face off use/abuse. Chinese ebikes scooters and hover things do not. I lean towards putting the saw makers in the same quality rating as the hand tools, very good. That said, risk/damage is proportional to battery size and saw batteries are getting big. Airlines limit battery size in luggage or parcels. The fires toxic offgas like crazy so venting pathway is a consideration. The fire can't be put out is another consideration. Spread to nearby cells or packs is a consideration.

Seems to me sheet steel boxes per pack with fireproof insulation and a less-harm vent path emerges as a solution. Airliners do similar!

Oh and cells sometimes explode. Don't chinz on the metal. Look up the vids.
 
Bart_ said:
Drill batteries have an excellent history in the face off use/abuse. Chinese ebikes scooters and hover things do not. I lean towards putting the saw makers in the same quality rating as the hand tools, very good. That said, risk/damage is proportional to battery size and saw batteries are getting big. Airlines limit battery size in luggage or parcels. The fires toxic offgas like crazy so venting pathway is a consideration. The fire can't be put out is another consideration. Spread to nearby cells or packs is a consideration.

Seems to me sheet steel boxes per pack with fireproof insulation and a less-harm vent path emerges as a solution. Airliners do similar!

Oh and cells sometimes explode. Don't chinz on the metal. Look up the vids.
Click to expand...
Good point, possibly making a bigger boom if in a sealed steel box.
 
evo said:
With the influx of Li battery tools in the industry and the inherent issues of fire and battery explosions what mitigation steps are you taking?
I admit I’m fairly careless keeping batteries in the tool frequently and having a pile of them in a bag stored in the cab to to keep them out of the elements.
IF a battery went in the saw tool box (bottom shelf) on the truck at a minimum all my rigging and saws would be gone. Ditto if the bag went in the cab, the truck would be toast.

I’m considering getting some ammo cans and make plywood dividers. The thought is if a battery went it would atleast be in an air tight container and hopefully contain the icky. It’s not practical for me to off load and reload all the batteries out of the truck at the end and start of the day.

What if anything do y’all do? Any cons to the ammo box idea?
Click to expand...
Sealed metal box is not a great idea, for one those batteries naturally release hydrogen gas (mostly when charging), and they need to be vented. Also, if they explode, or even catch fire, that can is not near enough steel to contain the fire. You’re better off to buy name brand batteries (those that go off are usually cheaply made) and treat them properly. Don’t beat them up, drop them, or pole holes in them. If they do get damaged, leave them outside far from everything for a while to be safe.

Good batteries also limit charge and discharge rates to protect themselves, so that they won’t go off. Cheap batteries tend not to do that, and overloaded Lithium Ion batteries are the most susceptible to fire or explosion.
 
evo said:
With the influx of Li battery tools in the industry and the inherent issues of fire and battery explosions what mitigation steps are you taking?
I admit I’m fairly careless keeping batteries in the tool frequently and having a pile of them in a bag stored in the cab to to keep them out of the elements.
IF a battery went in the saw tool box (bottom shelf) on the truck at a minimum all my rigging and saws would be gone. Ditto if the bag went in the cab, the truck would be toast.

I’m considering getting some ammo cans and make plywood dividers. The thought is if a battery went it would atleast be in an air tight container and hopefully contain the icky. It’s not practical for me to off load and reload all the batteries out of the truck at the end and start of the day.

What if anything do y’all do? Any cons to the ammo box idea?
Click to expand...
I am getting such a collection of batteries and chargers it's silly. I thought I might try some of the Amazon battery bags/ boxes - just search "battery fireproof containers". Can't verify the efficacy but seemed to be better than just a Milwaulkee bag in the truck. Cheers
 
They're also thermally protected, as a pack connected to the outside world. But what we're talking about here is cell failure followed by chemical thermal runaway. Cells are also overpressure vented to prevent exploding but shit happens. By the way, insulation outside surface of box to prevent red hot steel from starting more fire by contact.
 
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Great thread.

I have been thinking of ammo boxes drilled to release overpressure (or cut off wheel slit to keep pressure release under lid protection) and insulation to keep heat spread down.
 
As I remember it, if the battery runaway reaction (not really a fire) results in a jet, the temperature of the jet can be really really high - probably melt thru a "bag" or any metal box. I remember this thread from a while ago with some more comments from folks. Also the combustion products are really toxic and cleanup / decontamination is a mess (research in the UK I think it was). Cheers
 
ghostice said:
As I remember it, if the battery runaway reaction (not really a fire) results in a jet, the temperature of the jet can be really really high - probably melt thru a "bag" or any metal box. I remember this thread from a while ago with some more comments from folks. Also the combustion products are really toxic and cleanup / decontamination is a mess (research in the UK I think it was). Cheers
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You are correct. That reaction makes so much heat it will burn through just about anything, and the mess left behind is really hazardous and hard to handle.

Also, once a battery goes up in flame, you can’t be sure it won’t reignite until it has sat outside for about a month.
 
I can't recall seeing any problems with tool grade batteries (Milwaukee is what I use) causing problems. Construction workers are harder on their tools than tree guys, on the average. Also the construction industry uses far more tools/batteries than the tree industry, so considerably more exposure.


If they're not having problems...


Before our equipment change this year, we kept 18 M18 batteries under the passenger seat in the grapple truck, with a 6 pack charger between the seat to carry the dead batteries in at the end of the day to charge.
 
Lumberjack said:
I can't recall seeing any problems with tool grade batteries (Milwaukee is what I use) causing problems. Construction workers are harder on their tools than tree guys, on the average. Also the construction industry uses far more tools/batteries than the tree industry, so considerably more exposure.


If they're not having problems...


Before our equipment change this year, we kept 18 M18 batteries under the passenger seat in the grapple truck, with a 6 pack charger between the seat to carry the dead batteries in at the end of the day to charge.
Click to expand...
I agree, I have not heard of any problems with construction batteries either. Perhaps some of the knock off batteries, but certainly none from any of the big name companies. And you are right, construction workers are very hard on batteries and tools in general.

Some of these batteries have been on the market for many years in the construction world, without any issues.

When I worked construction years ago, we carried mountains of batteries in the trucks. Never had any problems with them. My father manages a solar company, they do primarily off grid work. They are quite careful with the large batteries, and have seen what can go wrong when things are mistreated, but they’ve never seen an issue with a tool battery either.
 
Reach said:
I agree, I have not heard of any problems with construction batteries either. Perhaps some of the knock off batteries, but certainly none from any of the big name companies. And you are right, construction workers are very hard on batteries and tools in general.

Some of these batteries have been on the market for many years in the construction world, without any issues.

When I worked construction years ago, we carried mountains of batteries in the trucks. Never had any problems with them. My father manages a solar company, they do primarily off grid work. They are quite careful with the large batteries, and have seen what can go wrong when things are mistreated, but they’ve never seen an issue with a tool battery either.
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I didn't really think tool batteries were a problem either, but there are some warnings about tool batteries it seems. Just an FYI:
https://www.workplacesafetynorth.ca...-alert-more-fires-linked-power-tool-batteries
https://www.bcforestsafe.org/wp-con...fetyAlert-FiresLinkedtoPowerToolBatteries.pdf
Read another article, chiefly about battery vehicle fires though, that cited four Li battery fires in one day in Sydney, Australia, one of which involved a tradesman's truck (battery stored under a seat), so guess they do happen. Go figure.
 
ghostice said:
I didn't really think tool batteries were a problem either, but there are some warnings about tool batteries it seems. Just an FYI:
https://www.workplacesafetynorth.ca...-alert-more-fires-linked-power-tool-batteries
https://www.bcforestsafe.org/wp-con...fetyAlert-FiresLinkedtoPowerToolBatteries.pdf
Read another article, chiefly about battery vehicle fires though, that cited four Li battery fires in one day in Sydney, Australia, one of which involved a tradesman's truck (battery stored under a seat), so guess they do happen. Go figure.
Click to expand...
yeah, what spawned this tread was a photo I saw of a bunch of fried equipment, I THINK it was the big orange company brand and seemed like all the tools were a total loss. Got me thinking that would really suck, more over if it was the truck too.
 
Friend near me had a construction tool battery burn in and total a truck. Not sure of brand, aftermarket or stock, or abuse it was put through - so it can happen (perhaps).

Story facts are a little to fluid from him for me to try asking about it a third time or more.
 
ghostice said:
I didn't really think tool batteries were a problem either, but there are some warnings about tool batteries it seems. Just an FYI:
https://www.workplacesafetynorth.ca...-alert-more-fires-linked-power-tool-batteries
https://www.bcforestsafe.org/wp-con...fetyAlert-FiresLinkedtoPowerToolBatteries.pdf
Read another article, chiefly about battery vehicle fires though, that cited four Li battery fires in one day in Sydney, Australia, one of which involved a tradesman's truck (battery stored under a seat), so guess they do happen. Go figure.
Click to expand...
I see. It would be interesting to know what brand batteries those are, whether they are major company brands or not. Thank you for sharing that, makes me want to try to look into some more of this.
 
I have removed trees that were damaged when a garage caught fire, and burned the kitchen as well, because their Ryobi leaf blower had a mostly full battery in it and it went off. I have never had one of mine explode but I have seen swollen phone batteries. I have seen enough to feel the need to be very careful with all batteries.
 
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