Article: PA inmates learn arborist work

A good friend of mine is the instructor for that program and he tells me he has had a number who have finished the program and their sentence and have gotten their lives turned around. This program has been on and off over several decades at Rockview. Another friend of mine taught it back in the late 60's and '70's. He hired one of his students who was an awesome climber and who went on to start a business that was very successful with his brother in the Harrisburg area. The photo also reminds me of an old trustee who was responsible for a flower garden area out by the road in front of the main block. They let him out there every day and he would tend the flowers and wave at every car that passed by. Kinda reminded one of Brooks in Shawshank. I'm surprised you got that photo. Can't take photos of Rockview. Signs on the roads warn against it.
 
I don't believe this is a positive concerning the public's perception of arboriculture.

Why not train them to be uber drivers?

Sounds like a poor idea, and it is.
 
TreeCo said:
I don't believe this is a positive concerning the public's perception of arboriculture.

Why not train them to be uber drivers?

Sounds like a poor idea, and it is.
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There is a stigma in the tree trade of containing more than its fair share of criminals(convicted or not) and/or convicts and here that is somewhat true. However for many the tree trade does offer employment, and many of these guys fit the build required to do this trade well. Many are also quite honest however lived on the rough side of life.

Meth is as big or bigger an issue, but harder to point a finger at as many people nowadays use and not obvious until takes a physical toll, and they can be more of a risk depending on the person than someone with a record.

If you are letting guys work for you know where your saws are stored - there must be some amount of confidence they are prepared to do the right thing. If doing background you also have an idea of what the issues are. People in prison also can and do turn their life around and can be better and more honourable than those that haven't served time in some cases. Each case is individual.

Advertising here is difficult because of this issue, and that of being ripped off, or property damaged by unqualified or untrustworthy workers. Being cased for future burglary by workers is another fairly big issue in some areas - especially the more remote properties. Trustworthiness of the business is an asset here.
 
In 8 years in business for myself, no one has ever asked me where my employees come from. In my 17 years in the industry, I have worked with or hired many people who had been to jail at some point. Many of them were great people and good workers who had made some mistakes in the past. Even though I have clearly become a perfect person now, I was not always so perfect and I remember where I came from. I don't judge a person for their past, but I do my best to discern whether they will be a good and trustworthy employee. Plenty of people who have never been to jail don't fit that description and many who have do. I tend to give people the benifit of the doubt until they have shown me otherwise. I think one guy stole all of my winter work clothes out of my truck one night and never came back to work. I am pretty sure another guy stole a rope before he stopped showing up. Lots of people just stop showing up. It is hard to find people who want to make tree work a career. Its hard to find people to do labor period. In my neck of the woods, I feel lucky if a guy shows up and puts in a decent effort.
 
southsoundtree said:
WA State Dept Of Natural Resources uses prison labor/ trains for pre-commercial (slash through) thinning. They have a prison-treeworker training program.

I know that an employee who applies with DNR experience tells me that I don't want to hire them. Wish it was different.
Maybe if I was an office boss who would not have to deal with convicts day in, day out.

Getting into prison takes effort, generally. Often people are in prison not for ALL the crimes they've committed. Drug addicts ('non-violent offenders') have done lots of things they are not arrested for.

I know finding anyone worthwhile as an employee is a stretch, and would love someone to prove me wrong, but ex-cons, sounds great in an idealized, 'they've been rehabilitated' pipe dream.
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You're not wrong, but if you haven't gotten away with a few felonies, we can't be friends.

TreeCo said:
I don't believe this is a positive concerning the public's perception of arboriculture.

Why not train them to be uber drivers?

Sounds like a poor idea, and it is.
Click to expand...
It shouldn't just be tree care. Prisoners should have an aptitude assessment and learn the basics of a trade while they are in.
Talking shit with criminals and being herded like cattle is the WORST thing to do to someone who has been caught making choices as poor as they have.

Taking years from someone's life for it's own sake is just about as inhumane as anything that I can imagine. Kill them if they're that bad. Or you could train them to be somebody. This garbage that we're doing to people is not only dumb, but also sickening.
 
SomethingWitty said:
You're not wrong, but if you haven't gotten away with a few felonies, we can't be friends.


It shouldn't just be tree care. Prisoners should have an aptitude assessment and learn the basics of a trade while they are in.
Talking shit with criminals and being herded like cattle is the WORST thing to do to someone who has been caught making choices as poor as they have.

Taking years from someone's life for it's own sake is just about as inhumane as anything that I can imagine. Kill them if they're that bad. Or you could train them to be somebody. This garbage that we're doing to people is not only dumb, but also sickening.
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Agreed that stigma is a major issue in society whether it is East/West/North/South. I have been asked dozens of times where my help comes from. But that is still a small proportion as the client is usually trusting me to vouch for whoever is on site.

I recently lost a valued friend to diabetes, but he served a long time and got married in prison to another valued friend of mine. They both served in ministry fo many years. Her family never accepted him - even isolated her for marrying him. Very sad situation.

Most of it is based on fear, and the threat of a record as a deterrent. But once a record has been established, what then. Then the gladiator academy aspect of prison adds to the fear, with the support of Hollywood.

When I learned this trade I worked with ex prisoners and they had issues that sometimes let them down but often were of stronger and more honorable character than some of the snakes I have worked with that have never served a day.

I think that the programs are valuable as they provide an avenue to give people another chance, and in commercial work here they can have an somewhat easy access to jobs.

In another life I have seen the duality of some people, the happy go lucky person on one presented side, and the violent aggressive assailant when they think they are isolated with someone weaker that they can take power over. Was a real wake up on first impressions.

That’s why I believe these programs can work, but need to be able to be in a program that can vet them for certain work and supports them after they are free to work, not just for policing but endorsement of who they are and the potential they have. If they can’t be trusted to work in a certain role then no support. We don’t get to see psych records from their time in prison to inform a decision so it comes down to what we see when trying to employ.

Used to be a member of shooting clubs and was interesting to hear the older members reminisce of vetting people that joined. They used to say that when DUI laws became policed stringently their job was made ten times harder as you never really know who you are talking to until they get some drinks in them and drop their guard.
 
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Chaplain242 said:
Agreed that stigma is a major issue in society whether it is East/West/North/South. I have been asked dozens of times where my help comes from. But that is still a small proportion as the client is usually trusting me to vouch for whoever is on site.

I recently lost a valued friend to diabetes, but he served a long time and got married in prison to another valued friend of mine. They both served in ministry fo many years. Her family never accepted him - even isolated her for marrying him. Very sad situation.

Most of it is based on fear, and the threat of a record as a deterrent. But once a record has been established, what then. Then the gladiator academy aspect of prison adds to the fear, with the support of Hollywood.

When I learned this trade I worked with ex prisoners and they had issues that sometimes let them down but often were of stronger and more honorable character than some of the snakes I have worked with that have never served a day.

I think that the programs are valuable as they provide an avenue to give people another chance, and in commercial work here they can have an somewhat easy access to jobs.

In another life I have seen the duality of some people, the happy go lucky person on one presented side, and the violent aggressive assailant when they think they are isolated with someone weaker that they can take power over. Was a real wake up on first impressions.

That’s why I believe these programs can work, but need to be able to be in a program that can vet them for certain work and supports them after they are free to work, but just for policing but endorsement of who they are and the potential they have. If they can’t be trusted to work in a certain role then no support. We don’t get to see psych records from their time in prison to inform a decision so it comes down to what we see when trying to employ.

Used to be a member of shooting clubs and was interesting to hear the older members reminisce of vetting people that joined. They used to say that when DUI laws became policed stringently their job was made ten times harder as you never really know who you are talking to until they get some drinks in them and drop their guard.
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Your character is not assessed when you are arrested and convicted of a crime. The sort of people that are good and strong seem to manage even with a felony (or a car wreck killing their family or having everything taken in a divorce or whatever). Something about enduring hardship tends to make people really shine as what they are.
It's unfortunate that the majority of people who spend time in prison are dumb, immoral, or both. The ones who really just made a mistake or two get lumped in with the rest of them. Nearly one percent of the adult population of the US is currently incarcerated. If only one in twenty of those (those are quite strict odds. I'm running with it because I am picky about friends and employees.) are great people who really deserve a shot, that makes at least one hundred thousand people who have not gotten out yet and could have a positive impact somewhere if they have the opportunity.



And if one in a hundred of those great people are cut out for the coolest job ever, there are 1000 of the baddest ass climbers (riggers, foremen, salesmen, mechanics, arborists) you've ever met in there right now.
 
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