Aerial friction reccos

[JTree]

Ok, so I'd like a way to add more friction at the rigging point. It's safeblock vs triple thimble, vs thunder sling, vs aerial friction brake, vs the rest of the world's worth of gear devoted to the purpose.

As a recovering climbing gear junkie, I don't want to buy everything only to find when X, Y, and Z are in the toolbox, 95% of the time I only use X.

What I usually work: tall pines without a lot of canopy, large spreading hardwoods (more oaks than anything recently) usually in backyards or other areas where I win the bids over the guys who mainly use lifts. Usually moderately sensitive sites where armoring or rigging is needed for 80% of the cuts.

Usual work situation: 1 or 2 groundies who only halfway know what they are doing. I spend about 20% of my day managing their time and double checking their work to make sure things are right. I can't trust them to big loads anymore, because none of them have run enough rope to be able to reliably let it run and not shock it after it clears the climber's danger zone. So nothing very heavy is being dropped into the system I'm looking to buy. Probably going to be using 1/2" rope for the next year except during the spar work.

What I'm thinking: if I have a way to take over lowering, it could feasibly speed up the work significantly over my current practices. Keeping one meathead dragging brush and keeping the other guy landing pieces and keeping the drop zone clear of brush and rope might go a long way to putting better profit margin in my jobs. Instead of having to pull the meathead off brush detail to let the guy running the porty explain what needs to happen with the tag line while he is lowering.

Ok collective, who's bought it all and knows where my dime should be spent?

 

[Tom Dunlap]

OLDS-Overhead Lowering...

OLDS=Overhead Lowering Device System Probably fifteen years ago I found a friction tool that I thought would work as a lowering device. Take a look: http://bmsrescue.com/blayspl.html Read the paper on the spool: http://bmsrescue.com/bspaper.html Carroll has other papers that should be...

www.treebuzz.com

Many options.

 

[Jonny]

Don’t forget rigging Rope Wrench.
I admit I’ve used none of them except a homemade rigging rope wrench and it was cool.
What sucks is you put a set amount of friction on the aerial device and if you want more or less friction you either need another rope set up or you’re climbing back to the tip to make an adjustment. The second rigging line isn’t such a bad idea.
I think I’ll soon be trying a shear reduction device though, basically a pulley but the sheave doesn’t spin, I’d be comfortable drilling and driving a bolt through the side and sheave of an old CMI steel block I got, but I might just buy the one from Singing Rock for lighter static loads.

There’s a good article from in the portal that is worth reading if you haven’t yet.

WHERE SHOULD FRICTION BE IN OUR ROPE RIGGING SYSTEMS? – TreeBuzz

 

[JTree]

OLDS-Overhead Lowering...

OLDS=Overhead Lowering Device System Probably fifteen years ago I found a friction tool that I thought would work as a lowering device. Take a look: http://bmsrescue.com/blayspl.html Read the paper on the spool: http://bmsrescue.com/bspaper.html Carroll has other papers that should be...

www.treebuzz.com

Many options.

Yep....and I'd like to buy like 1, *maybe* 2

 

[JTree]

Don’t forget rigging Rope Wrench.
I admit I’ve used none of them except a homemade rigging rope wrench and it was cool.
What sucks is you put a set amount of friction on the aerial device and if you want more or less friction you either need another rope set up or you’re climbing back to the tip to make an adjustment. The second rigging line isn’t such a bad idea.
I think I’ll soon be trying a shear reduction device though, basically a pulley but the sheave doesn’t spin, I’d be comfortable drilling and driving a bolt through the side and sheave of an old CMI steel block I got, but I might just buy the one from Singing Rock for lighter static loads.

There’s a good article from in the portal that is worth reading if you haven’t yet.

WHERE SHOULD FRICTION BE IN OUR ROPE RIGGING SYSTEMS? – TreeBuzz

I've read it and it's still as relevant as the day it was posted. There's actually a bunch of really great stuff in the older articles.

 

[southsoundtree]

Zip lining is a good tool.

I NC self-lower all I can.

 

[JTree]

Zip lining is a good tool.

I NC self-lower all I can.

Yeah, I've been doing more speedlining when the site allows, but sometimes it's just not as practical as other times. Sometimes I end up spending as much time setting and having it tensioner as I save by not using more traditional lowering methods. For SURE has it's place, though.

 

[Z'sTrees]

I like the rigging wrench if there's any lifting involved. Otherwise triple thimble works fairly well for heavier stuff, but you can't beat good ole fashioned Natty crotch alot of the time.

 

[theatertech87]

Having owned or used everything in your list plus a rigging wrench I would like to say that I own two thimbles because they're phenomenal. One long one on a ultra sling, and one on a short loopie style sling I can girth hitch to a dead eye rigging ring to make a remotely retrievable device.

I've found the best way to use it do you're not constantly rethreading the rope is to pick a single rigging point for the thimble, and use an omni block or similar as a redirect around the tree. Added bonus of spreading loads outand getting optional rigging line placement on less than perfectly sound anchors

 

[JTree]

Having owned or used everything in your list plus a rigging wrench I would like to say that I own two thimbles because they're phenomenal. One long one on a ultra sling, and one on a short loopie style sling I can girth hitch to a dead eye rigging ring to make a remotely retrievable device.

I've found the best way to use it do you're not constantly rethreading the rope is to pick a single rigging point for the thimble, and use an omni block or similar as a redirect around the tree. Added bonus of spreading loads outand getting optional rigging line placement on less than perfectly sound anchors

Just going for clarification: so you are saying the triple thimble for added friction near the top and then a block of some sort to redirect at the cut is a regular practice of yours, correct? Do you find it difficult to pull slack out of the thimble from the ground?

Also trying to follow what you've got going on the retrievable. Not really understanding it I guess. You have an adjustable endless that you are girthing inside the same eye as a block? Am I understanding that right?

 

[colb]

Rignwrench for small/medium rigging, safebloc / triple thimble for 5/8" line or greater line (9/16" and 1/2" doesn't get enough bend to friction appreciably).

Also don't forget natural crotch rigging. Might be too gummy for pines, but works great with the right rope, and it is free aerial friction...

 

[RBJtree]

I've used the triple thimble with 1/2 inch true blue and 9/16ths stable braid. My ground guy could handle 400 - 500 lbs with the 9/16ths stable braid through all three holes. The 1/2 inch didn't make enough friction for more than 200 lbs. I haven't tried larger. The 9/16ths is significantly hard to pull back through and it will hockle a bit, but it's workable. I haven't used any other devices in the tree.

 

[JeffGu]

I pretty much do everything with 1/2" rope, anymore, and I'm usually working solo. So, I've become rather fond of Rigging Wrench setups. I rarely use just the RnW... I set a 2.6 OmniBlock as my main rigging point, and use 2.0 OmniBlocks for redirects so I can move the RnW around in the tree to keep it fairly close to me. I use the RnW as a redirect, not as the main anchor.

To hold the tail of the rigging line when I need both hands making the cut, I keep a lightweight ultrasling, about 8' long, with me. And a steel carabiner. I have several of these ultraslings made from either Ice Tail or 3/8" TenexTEC and I just wrap around the trunk or a limb nearby, then clip the tail of the rigging line through the carabiner and wrap it a couple of times.

If you want more friction in the system, you can use rigging rings for the redirects or at the main anchor. It sounds like it might be complicated or time consuming, but it really isn't any more so than any other rigging setup. The hook I use on the rigging lines lets me just use loop runners, which I can shake off the hook once the piece hits the ground, and pull the hook back up to me.

Obviously, if you have a helper, this all goes a lot faster... but you'd be surprised how much you can do without any help.

 

[Jehinten]

I like triple thimble most of the time and use 1/2" for all of my rigging. I tried the thundersling and constantly dealt with too little or too much friction and hockles. The rig-n-wrench is also great, I used it today at the base of a speedline. Also natural crotch with 3, 12 or 16 strand ropes.

If you'll be controlling the load anyways and want to keep your guys busy check out the solo rigging thread. There are some aerial releasable rigging setups so that all your guys have to do is drag. Also @JeffGu idea with the hook and slings is good. Your guys clear the slings and send up a bunch at a time while their chipping.

 

[JeffGu]

Another cool thing I discovered with the RnW is to set up a vertical speedline, put the RnW at the top of it, and use it to slow the pieces down as they fall. They don't smack the ground/cribbing as hard and don't bounce around so much afterwards. I just clip the RnW rope onto the same sling that's holding the piece to the speedline. Works pretty slick with the size pieces I cut, <300 lbs. and acts rather like an automatic "Let 'er run!"

 

[theatertech87]

Just going for clarification: so you are saying the triple thimble for added friction near the top and then a block of some sort to redirect at the cut is a regular practice of yours, correct? Do you find it difficult to pull slack out of the thimble from the ground?

Also trying to follow what you've got going on the retrievable. Not really understanding it I guess. You have an adjustable endless that you are girthing inside the same eye as a block? Am I understanding that right?

1 yes, it's a regular practice of mine, and no pulling it through for ground help isn't too bad.

2 not quite, I'll have to take a picture tomorrow to illustrate.

 

[colb]

I pretty much do everything with 1/2" rope, anymore, and I'm usually working solo. So, I've become rather fond of Rigging Wrench setups. I rarely use just the RnW... I set a 2.6 OmniBlock as my main rigging point, and use 2.0 OmniBlocks for redirects so I can move the RnW around in the tree to keep it fairly close to me. I use the RnW as a redirect, not as the main anchor.

To hold the tail of the rigging line when I need both hands making the cut, I keep a lightweight ultrasling, about 8' long, with me. And a steel carabiner. I have several of these ultraslings made from either Ice Tail or 3/8" TenexTEC and I just wrap around the trunk or a limb nearby, then clip the tail of the rigging line through the carabiner and wrap it a couple of times.

If you want more friction in the system, you can use rigging rings for the redirects or at the main anchor. It sounds like it might be complicated or time consuming, but it really isn't any more so than any other rigging setup. The hook I use on the rigging lines lets me just use loop runners, which I can shake off the hook once the piece hits the ground, and pull the hook back up to me.

Obviously, if you have a helper, this all goes a lot faster... but you'd be surprised how much you can do without any help.

It's amazing to see the hook migrate into closed-system territory. I remember my first time rigging a 2" deadwood limb with it and thinking "what's this leading to?"

I really like the idea of using the rignwrench at a non-terminal redirect. I'm having just a tad bit of trouble visualizing how you use the ultra sling, but that is probably me and not you. Great post.

 

[southsoundtree]

Yeah, I've been doing more speedlining when the site allows, but sometimes it's just not as practical as other times. Sometimes I end up spending as much time setting and having it tensioner as I save by not using more traditional lowering methods. For SURE has it's place, though.

If you anchor the bottom end of a NC-able rope, you can tension it as the climber, cut, and drop. Leaving less coordination between two people. You have the other half to NC self-lower.

I stripping out a fir yesterday doing all the lowering. I can do a lot more, faster this way. I though I would zip-line stuff off the back side, but was easier to cut and lower, then lay them down right at the tray, occasionally with some help landing a bundle.

Once the rope was freed, my groundman and I had clear communication that I was in solid control of the rope and wouldn't be letting any of it down on the ground. I just tied up a coil and hung part of the rope since I wasn't also speedlining. Worked off both ends at times. Pulled up some of the lowering-end and tied it off short so I could totally let go , and none would hit the ground. He chipped, I tied the next batch and managed the rope as needed.


I need to figure out the mechanics (should be simple) of August Hunicke's half-hitching of middle limbs, with a solid termination at the end (RB or whatever). I was clove-hitching the upper three limbs, then terminating with a RB.



I was looking for my Rig-n-Wrench the other day, but couldn't find it. It shines with needing to tip-tie or pre-tension.

Munter hitches work for light stuff.


The BMS Belay Spools can be found on eBay, sometimes. I think the AFB are not beefy enough. The rope bend radius is sub-par, but never had a problem.

 

[southsoundtree]

What sucks is you put a set amount of friction on the aerial device and if you want more or less friction you either need another rope set up or you’re climbing back to the tip to make an adjustment.

You can keep the friction device near the climber, and use a pulley/ block up top, if needed.

A stub near the climber can add friction to a friction device away from the climber.


I will try to set myself up with a braking/ friction stub nearby, when I'm NCing a good-sized load that I don't want to overwork my hands to lower, or that is plain too heavy.

 

[Jehinten]

Another positive for the triple thimble is the ability to run two ropes through it. One rope through two holes and one rope through the third, really helps in certain situations such as storm damage that you need to control both ends of the piece from the same vantage point.