Accident Prevention

[mrtree]

At least twice in the past few months we have heard of tree workers being killed by stuck-bys. In the most recent case Tom Dunlop's friend was killed in Ashland when a tree was felled into him while he was working on a different tree.

It may be perfectly safe to fell a tree with proper training, education, experience and controls in place. No big deal, most tree workers fell trees on a regular basis.

It is likely just as safe to move onto a second tree and fell it.

But these two separate incidents are not safe when we combine them.

The hazard of felling a tree may have a low probability of striking a feller but the risk (outcome) is catastrophic if it happens. We place controls to reduce the risk to a very low risk by using experienced, trained people to do higher risk work and implementing other controls as necessary.

If you start working with two people within the strike zone (often defined as twice the height of the tree) then the hazards are the same (striking a person) but the probability of striking a worker soars and so does the risk.

How do we reduce the risk to an acceptable level? Some might say better felling skills, but here is a fact, each tree has stored potential energy. When the potential energy is transformed to kinetic energy by cutting a notch and making a backcut, the energy is there and the only control we have is to control the direction of fall. Or is it?

We can stop accidents by breaking the flow of energy. In the case of two fellers working we can easily stop the flow of (half of the) energy by only felling one tree at a time and we can further reduce the probability of a struck-by by moving all workers but the feller out of the strike zone.

Believing that skills will prevent an accident is naive and does not offer an approach as expected in hazard and risk analysis. Accident prevention refers to the plans, preparations and actions taken to avoid or stop an accident before it happens (From https://www.safeopedia.com/definition/206/accident-prevention). Directional felling is not a plan, it is only a skill, hazard and risk assessment is one part of the preparation that can stop an accident.

 

[JD3000]

The new safety standard is being written or is already done at this point. Do you find it to be not robust enough or is the real problem that rules are not being followed at times?

My guess is the latter as I've only heard a few blurbs about revisions. I suppose the arguement is that a great set of safety standards is a wonderful thing but they HAVE to become an ingrained policy when felling and pruning is performed.

Any data on fatalaties and injuries occuring with companies that have a safery progrom and credentialed employes vs those that dont?

 

[mrtree]

The answer to your questions could fill a volume.

It is my belief that skills and courses are just that. If you want to have a safety culture than you need to have a higher level of thinking that will require employees, supervisors, owners, etc. to be assessing every job and assess moment to moment to see if the standard operating procedures in place are enough controls to bring the residual risk associated with the job to an acceptable low level.

An example is EHAP. I hear many that say they can work near energized conductors because they have EHAP. That is fine but they have not assessed the job. Are they working controls other than a single course and their chainsaw skills combined with whatever means of access they are using?

As for training and safety programs they have a clear beneficial effect, but you need more to be highly effective.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

Accident prevention starts with the boss. Does he give the guys the ability to do their job safely? The tools, the skills, the knowledge, and the understanding. Do the salesmen take responsibility for their mistakes, we all make them on occasion, or do they push it off to the crew to make it right? What happens when the climber isn't 100% comfortable with the job? Can he walk away with no repercussions? Can he request additional equipment? Is he just a chicken shit? Is he pushed (goated) into it? He got away with it last time, why not this time? Do the crews understand they have support from above (boss)? Will be back the climbers decision? There is often times a disconnect between the boss and the crew somehow. Maybe a trust issue?
Does the crew not have the knowledge and ability to know when they are in over their head? Do they communicate the need for training? Or the need for an open conversation? What are their channels of communication? Are they easy and streamlined or a complete pain in the ass?
Accident prevention is so much more than just a safety meeting every day, week, month, or the ANSI Z. It's about communication, openly and honestly among the ranks. Everyone knowing expectations, reality, and that what we do can be dangerous. I say can because we make it dangerous!!!!! It doesn't have to be, it's our decisions that make it dangerous.
You want to prevent accidents, talk to your people, any that don't understand your commitment to safety or don't care to care, cut ties! If you are not a boss, talk to him/her, find out what their expectations are, where their commitments lie. If those are not inline with your expectations of them, cut ties. It's not easy or simple, but no tree, no job, no boss, no dollar is worth dying over, PERIOD.

Side note: I have no knowledge of the situation, job, or work place environment of Tom's friend. I do know it is a tragic and senseless loss that will effect many people. R.I.P.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

Standard operating procedures are a way to limit the crew. SOP's tell the crew how to handle certain situations. But what we do is anything and everything but standard. You can write an SOP for the tree we do today and it won't match any other tree we do this month, week or year. And probably won't be followed through the entire tree because things look different from above. SOP's on communication, equipment requests and general things are fine, even one saying the crew will follow ANSI Z 133.
But they are just policies, words on paper. Unless the boss can trust his crew not to take advantage, and the crew can trust that the boss will trust their judgement it's all hogwash.
Good crew leaders, good bosses and good people are the ones that are going to prevent accidents.

 

[JD3000]

JSA. Job Safety Analysis.

Need to do a risk assessment for the job to be performed on each tree on each site.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

JSA. Job Safety Analysis.

Need to do a risk assessment for the job to be performed on each tree on each site.

Agreed! Who does the assessment? The climber? The boss? The salesman? All of them?
So many times the one (of the three above) with the least risk, least to loose and (oftentimes) the least experience is the one doing this assessment 2 to 6 to 12 weeks prior to the crew arriving to do the work. And this assessment is being done in the context of "how little do I have to charge to get the job?". When the crew shows up they have a piece of paper that has these hazards, obstacles, targets and risks.
An assessment should be completed everytime a member of the company looks at or works on the tree. All previous assessments should be considered but the current assessment is what is worked from.

 

[Tyler Durden]

Out here we have JSA's, tree Hazzard inspection forms, chain saw inspection forms, vehicle inspection forms, Daily company wide and crew tail gate safty meetings, and every single person has stop work authority with no repercussions. It makes for slow going, but my guys can do some very risky trees with no issues.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

 

[mrtree]

Flyingsquirrel, all you arguments are about a system that is not working correctly. When a safety program is put into place and implemented correctly (including job hazard and risk assessment) it works.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

Flyingsquirrel, all you arguments are about a system that is not working correctly. When a safety program is put into place and implemented correctly (including job hazard and risk assessment) it works.

I'm not trying to argue. You are correct, when the safety program is in place it works... Most of the time. Big names in our industry Davey, Bartlett ect all have safety programs. I could only imagine the carnage if they didn't, but still they seem have problems at times. The climber that fell with the ash in the Carolinas a couple years ago, a friend of mine broke his collar bone a little over a year ago (both big green).
And you are also correct, I speak of a system the is not working correctly. When something doesn't work right bad things happen. When bad things happen we die! Whether it's the climber, boss or salesmans fault, the system is consistently not working.
The chipper illustrates my point. How many more sticker, terrible pictures and warnings do we need to put on these machines. There is a program in place (as long as they have eyes and can see) yet we still are killing people in these tools. So the answer is not to train these personnel but put "safeties" such as chip safe, operator presence devices and rope shearing knives on machines. So we can truly have idiots running our equipment. Twice last year the "new guy" when through. Why? No training! Nobody working with them?
Now I may be arguing, but it pisses me off that we are doing this to ourselves. We in the industry know the hazards, but we don't tell our guys or they don't listen or we rush an underbid. Most newbies don't care to learn, just want to do the fun stuff.
Those of us doing it right can't talk to the guys doing it wrong, they don't trust us! They have gotten away with it this long why change now. But yet most have to compete with that.
End of rant... For now

 

[treehumper]

It's easier in a big company for the crews and their supervisors to become disconnected from the executive in a safety culture their becomes a risk of production taking precedence. Old school philosophies are re-asserted and all the efforts of the head office fall by the way side as impediments to getting the job done.

The challenge will always be to keep the philosophy of safety first as absolute and to be enforced by everyone all the time.

 

[roxy]

This is an outstanding discussion.
Someone should write a book. Maybe I'll write a book. I'm home sick today. I could start today.
The size of the operation doesn't dictate approach to a safe working environment. One crew to ten crews, we all face similar challenges and situations, daily. We may have different equipment as our companies grow, but the basics are still the basics: arborist climber, groundsperson, ropes, saws...
I'm one of the people at our office responsible for training new climbers and for developing our culture of safety. It's stressful to train new people and I find myself thinking about this frequently. The prevention is the answer, right? Yes preventing is the answer! It's tough to nail down, why can't we practice prevention, and NEVER get to the incident!?
I think about this a great deal: the real answer to performing this work more and more safely must somehow be *greater* than what we are currently doing. What are we missing?! The vibe I'm getting from flyingsquirrel is that he's thinking about this, too. It's all the reasons...that we still arrive at incidents. And in our profession the incident can kill.
I met Jay last spring, the climber who was killed by a falling tree last week. I met him when I was teaching a TCIA/MN Chapter sponsored class on aerial rescue. Jay brought a new employee to the workshop. Impressive because this was the employee's *first day*. That was his commitment to a new employee, and to placing an importance on safe work practices. That day we talked quite a lot about leading indicators, about changing culture and practices, looking at our own habits and offering real ways we could all change. And we went outside and performed physical rescues, to develop our muscle memory. Overall I believe everyone walked away from that day with a renewed sense of how to do things better. More safely. It was a day well spent.
But that was last spring. A long time between renewals. Maybe it's just not enough. I'm always trying to put my hands on the greater thing, the thing that drives the message home to a new hire, to an old hand, to an old hand who one hands....and the only answer I can come up with is this: everyday is a new damn day and every day unless we're thinking about it, thinking about it while we're doing it, knowing that others are watching us do it, teaching others actively, following up on near misses, and constantly tweaking our own work practices, we are bound to have repeat results.

 

[mrtree]

This is an outstanding discussion.
Someone should write a book. .

There are loads of H&S books already written. Tree workers don't need a book of their own, they need to read what is already out there.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

There are loads of H&S books already written. Tree workers don't need a book of their won, they need to read what is already out there.

Maybe we do need our own book! Because what's out there isn't cutting it. Roxy's post tells me Jay was committed to safety, his boss was committed to safety. They sent the "new guy" to AR training. They go to TCIA events. They are doing what's out there. What are we missing, why did Jay get killed? What was the day like? Was there a buzz to get the work done like we all see? Or was there urgency to come in under budget? How can someone that is safety conscious enough to take classes have a lapse in judgement in such a serious situation? Was the feller new, not knowing the commitment to safety, not knowing the requirements? Like I said before we make this job dangerous.
I have asked a lot of questions and don't expect answers. My questions are more to encourage thought before you are faced with a situation so when faced with it you can make a safe and intelligent decision. Thus hopefully preventing more senseless loss!

 

[mrtree]

Going to courses and TCIA is just that, it is not a health and safety program, its is not a culture of safety, it is not what is out there.

Tree workers tend too think much to narrowly, health and safety has the same general principles across the workplace, there are some specific skills and hazards to each individual job.

Attached are two very basic sheets that discuss due-diligence. Training is but one part, the owners and supervisors must then ensure that it is being used on the job-site along lots of other things.

If it were as simple as train and things are perfect then none of us would ever have problems with our children, let alone our employees.

And Jay's death is senseless but not with out explainable cause; we just do not know what the cause is.

 

[mrtree]

I am really sick and tired of the uneducated responses to every accident reported. As a whole the tree industry is a bunch of neanderthals. We need to move out of the dark ages and realize that thinking is going to save us, not a skill with the work arborist attached.

If other industries are able to implement health and safety surely we can.

 

[1adkarborist]

I am really sick and tired of the uneducated responses to every accident reported. As a whole the tree industry is a bunch of neanderthals. We need to move out of the dark ages and realize that thinking is going to save us, not a skill with the work arborist attached.

If other industries are able to implement health and safety surely we can.

mrtree: how do you propose that the industry move out of the dark ages? the other industries you speak of having implemented health and safety, are they regulated? how are they similar to our industry?

 

[mrtree]

We can regulate all we want but until there is a change in mindset and health and safety becomes an over-riding force we will not get too far.

How do we get there? Again look at other industries, if a company sets the goal of zero injuries and works towards it that is a lot different than saying we are a dangerous industry that has constantly changing hazards and therefore we cannot control the hazards.

Tree work is regulated, there are lots of ANSI and OSHA standards, rules and regs, there are lots of safety groups, lots of certifications and designations, etc., an incredible amount of knowledge; we likely don't progress quickly towards a safer industry because as a whole we choose not too.

Something as simple as larger companies auditing their employees work (for safety compliance) could go a long ways. Assuming that employees will use common sense, do what is expected, work safely etc., all sounds good but is not likely to occur. The two attached files are a good indication of what needs to be done within a company.

 

[flyingsquirrel25]

How do we get there? Again look at other industries, if a company sets the goal of zero injuries and works towards it that is a lot different than saying we are a dangerous industry that has constantly changing hazards and therefore we cannot control the hazards.

Tree work is regulated, there are lots of ANSI and OSHA standards, rules and regs, there are lots of safety groups, lots of certifications and designations, etc., an incredible amount of knowledge; we likely don't progress quickly towards a safer industry because as a whole we choose not too.

I have a hard time comparing other industries to ours. Linemen for example have very structured safety protocols. Our regulations call for them, but there is such a vast array of companies, employees and equipment. There is no way to regulate that effectively.
You got the landscapers that do a few trees a year, the landscapers that fancy themselves as tree guys, the ones that try to do it right. Then you got the tree guys that don't care, the ones that know they should care, the ones that try to care, the ones that give it a "good college try" and then the good guys that do it right. How do you bring all these together to come to an agreement on safety standards? Shit we have enough of a problem just getting along let alone sitting down and talking about something as "controversial" as health and safety.

I'm not starving, I have time to make safety my number one priority. Hell I lost my a$$ on a job yesterday but did not compromise my standards. Each one of us has our own circle of influence, act within this circle, branch out when you can. Solving our industry as a "whole" is not realistic. But we need to start. One climber, ground man, supervisor, owner, salesman at a time if need be but we need to start.

How do you start though when barely anyone pays attention to our standards in the grand scheme of things that is.

Edit: I forgot a couple people that do trees, construction companies (those roots will be fine), electricians, plumbers, cops, corrections officers.

 

[monkeylove]

... Hell I lost my a$$ on a job yesterday but did not compromise my standards...

We will have to make sure you get some of that a$$ back on Monday. I got some built in wiggle room incase we need it Mert.