ABR Rigging Thimbles

[Merle Nelson]

Hmmm, not sure I catch every nuance of your thoughts yet but, fine enough. Lets watch it play out.

I don't feel like I communicate my thoughts in writing as well as I would like when at my best and I certainly am not trying to get every last facet into a single (or few) posts here and now. The reference you quote was a sloppy attempt at a metaphore that I thought could help Jeff (and us all) see from another reference point (empathy.)

David (in this particular example) brought XRR's over from another industry and use. He used them in an innovative way and then caused that info to spread. He has said, I believe, that he spent a year or two testing them and proving out their use for himself. After the fact, he has found out, that steel thimbles in eye splices used to be used to accomplish part of what XXR's accomplish. I had never ever heard of that. Additionaly he found a post searching another forum that proposed using marine rings back years ago - one reply to the post.

David is the only reason I know about rigging with Rings. I applaud that. I make money with that. I will happily pay for that. Years down the road I think most rigging will be done with Rings and blocks will be purchased and brought out of the bag only for specific aspects of the job. When that happens I will think of David. I'll know some guy posted a single thought about it prior - but David sold the idea.

Forget David. I know the personal stories of a bunch of other inventors in our industry. We are demoralizing them. We are shooting ourselves in the foot.

It will not suprise me if I am in the minority here or if others don't agree with me. And by "playing it out" what I am thinking of is the bigger picture. Treat your inventors and innovators as you wish in print and in fact. Humans are motivated by pain and by pleasure. Give them pain, pain, pain and see what you get.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Jeff just got off the keyboard and read your most recient post. A lot of good points and I couldn't say I disagree with any of your thoughts.

 

[jmaher]

For every patent issued, hundreds are rejected. That's because painting a bumper jack green and calling it a T-post removal tool doesn't make it a patentable device. It makes no difference whether you were the first one to figure out that a bumper jack will pull a post out of the ground, or not. If you made substantial alterations to the bumper jack to make it better at pulling T-posts, you might be able to patent it, but you would still have to pay licensing fees to whoever held the patent on the bumper jack you started with. Different types of patents are good for varying time periods, so you might have a small window in which to make your fortune (or go bankrupt) before the patent expires. Pharmaceutical companies effectively extend their patents by slightly changing the formula (not re-patentable) and then patenting the process by which they produce the drug. Since they have a pretty good idea of how long it takes to come up with another method or process to make the formulation, this is an effective (abeit sleazy) way of keeping cheaper alternatives to their product off the market. The patent circus has a lot of monkeys, smoke, mirrors and billionaire ringleaders to deal with. It's also not very cost effective unless you're damn sure there's a lot of money to be made.

The issue of morality or ethics in business is even more slippery. Expecting any business to walk a higher ground than their competitors sounds great, if you only listen to the friends of some perceived victim of unethical business practices. But if you sold Whatchamajiggers for a living, and for every call or email you received, 90% of them were asking if there wasn't some more affordable version of Whatchamajigger on the market... well, you might go looking for something cheaper, or even consider producing them yourself. In the end, it is the consumers who will dictate whether it is more unethical to compete in a given market, or to ignore the consumer's desire for alternatives to a given product by only offering one brand.

You can buy the shiny Whatchamajigger, or the camouflage Whatchamajigger, the cheapass Whatchamajigger or the Whatchamajigger that does the best job of fixing the Thingamabobber. Or, you can whine about the lack of justice in a capitalist economy and look into becoming a plumber or an accountant or some other Whatchamajigger-free occupation.

Now, y'all want any more gasoline thrown on that fire, or can we get back to roastin' weenies and drinkin' beer?

Shame you can't "double like" posts.

 

[JeffGu]

I'm very familiar with shitty business practices, bad business ideas, unethical treatment of your fellow human beings, etc.... but there is also the reality of the business world, and it's ugly. I just prefer to save my indignation for the ones that break the rules and laws, not the ones that play by the rules, go out of their way to accommodate the competition, and do well because they understand the game better. The latter, I can live with. Nature of the game, and all that.

 

[Pelorus]

I like that toilet plunger manhole cover concept.

 

[jmaher]

No, not yet JeffGu.


When you are fine with someone moving into your town and starting up a business that looks eerily similar to yours and is called JeffGu-Gu. (Wait - I had to answer the door and accept a TreeStuff package from UPS [for real])


When you laugh off that you took very real financial risks which took significant money from home and hearth.


When you find it amusing all the added strain that is put on your marriage.


When your decades of effort is best summed up in your mind by your best friend just having them cut his tree.

When etc...

When you are laughing about all of that and finding it fine, then sure, I’ll have a beer with you and watch you roast your weenie in frustration.

You realize driver didn't INVENT the ring, right? As well as he's not the first person (by a long shot) to have used them in this application.
DRIVER chose to REBRAND an existing product. That's his choice. There's nothing proprietary there. Granted yes.. He tested the shit out of them, and threw money at them.. But.. Still. I don't believe for a second that gives him the monopoly.

 

[jmaher]

Merle- it seems from your posts that you are good natured and well intentioned. I respect your online entity. That being said, I must pick a bone with you.

You talk about what's best for the industry. Also about financial motivation. I'm sure that you know this is a cold world. There is a fine line between personal life and business. If you had spent the last decade "developing" a product that already existed I might call you a dummy. Which is why when the rings first debuted I said the same thing. Greed and the desire for notarity will drive one to a miserly existence.

I fucking LOVE this post.

 

[MikePowers321]

 

[Boomslang]

When financial motives become the sole driver (pardon the pun) behind innovation and invention we've failed as a society.

I applaud David for what he popularized in the industry, as I feel most others do, but there's always room for competition. And what's that old saying.....Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

 

[Leroy]

Hmmm, not sure I catch every nuance of your thoughts yet but, fine enough. Lets watch it play out.

I don't feel like I communicate my thoughts in writing as well as I would like when at my best and I certainly am not trying to get every last facet into a single (or few) posts here and now. The reference you quote was a sloppy attempt at a metaphore that I thought could help Jeff (and us all) see from another reference point (empathy.)

David (in this particular example) brought XRR's over from another industry and use. He used them in an innovative way and then caused that info to spread. He has said, I believe, that he spent a year or two testing them and proving out their use for himself. After the fact, he has found out, that steel thimbles in eye splices used to be used to accomplish part of what XXR's accomplish. I had never ever heard of that. Additionaly he found a post searching another forum that proposed using marine rings back years ago - one reply to the post.

David is the only reason I know about rigging with Rings. I applaud that. I make money with that. I will happily pay for that. Years down the road I think most rigging will be done with Rings and blocks will be purchased and brought out of the bag only for specific aspects of the job. When that happens I will think of David. I'll know some guy posted a single thought about it prior - but David sold the idea.

Forget David. I know the personal stories of a bunch of other inventors in our industry. We are demoralizing them. We are shooting ourselves in the foot.

It will not suprise me if I am in the minority here or if others don't agree with me. And by "playing it out" what I am thinking of is the bigger picture. Treat your inventors and innovators as you wish in print and in fact. Humans are motivated by pain and by pleasure. Give them pain, pain, pain and see what you get.

As I said before Merle, I appreciate what you bring to the forums, I have not met you in person, but I believe it would be a good meeting. As it was when I met Xman at the expo last year. All I will say is that... "WHO CARES?!!??" Ever heard of Tesla? Why don't you dig him up and raise him on a cross? These works, these rigging thimbles are so minimal on the grand scheme of things. Soon all of our works will be perverted, bastardized and forgotten. As you said about morals and the death bed... that's all that matters. Those are pretty heavy analogies to bring to this discussion in my opinion but if you want to take it there... These conflicts are so insignificant, Love your brother,

"Don't gain the world and lose your soul, for all that glitters is not silver and gold."

 

[Sgriff]

At least the abr rings are slightly redesigned for arbor application. Not just a bumper jack painted green...

That other thing he made though,the three hole belay spool acting thing that replaces a block,that's innovative for sure! Kudos!!

 

[Merle Nelson]

Thanks for your kind words Levi and thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm sure I would enjoy meeting you too.

I will sign off posting in this thread for now. Earlier I realized that posting my points here is probably part of what is giving the mistaken impression that I am talking about one product or one company.

 

[CutHighnLetFly]

It is a cold world. Everyone's opinion and choices are valid and fair.
I feel like, in supporting xtreme arborists, I'm not playing a part in what makes this world cold as far as this specific situation is concerned.
Admittedly I don't approach any other purchasing decisions like this, it's just that I'm part of this industry and I'm met David and worked with arbor x for a few days

 

[Leroy]

Thanks for your kind words Levi and thanks for sharing your thoughts. I'm sure I would enjoy meeting you too.

I will sign off posting in this thread for now. Earlier I realized that posting my points here is probably part of what is giving the mistaken impression that I am talking about one product or one company.

Merle I understand that you are not talking about one thing or person in general, neither am I. I apologize if I came across as rude, I too have a hard time expressing myself in writing. I did not intend to dissuade you from posting! Here's to you Merle

 

[MikePowers321]

You see, we need to look at the root of this so-called problem to move forward. As humans, we tend to separate ourselves from one another, creating a you and a me. In this case it is something like the X-man vs. Abr-Treestuff. The truth is, we can never change the 'cold world' to be something that is filled with sincere joy without seeing one another in our true light. We can keep pointing these fingers of guilt all we want, but where does it get us? Our oneness is what makes us whole and feel good inside. Does it not feel as though something is missing in this world, like we have missed the mark somehow? Think about this deeply and realize that I am talking about the big picture. This is just a tiny example, but brings up an important topic. Condemnation will never solve simple mistakes. Live by the rule that we are all brothers and sisters, and everything else will fall into place naturally.

 

[Merle Nelson]

Good points Mike.