ABR Rigging Thimbles

Antal, Selden, Harken, DEUS, ArbPro, Armare, Ronstan, Wichard, and Tylaska all have their names on X-rigging type rings and Shizll even has an arborist specific ring more similar to the ABR ones. There is absolutely nothing proprietary about these rings. Unlike ocean's modded ascender, the rope wrench, HAAS, or Matt Cornell saddle, X didn't have to go through designing, manufacturing, and testing. He introduced something to the arb market that already existed elsewhere. He didn't have to spend time and money rebranding them, he chose to. People are still going to buy X-rings because they want to support David, but to think he should have exclusive rights in the arb industry is ignorant.
 
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Yah thats true But ABR was being sold by Treestuff at the same time ABR and I guess Treestuff were working on their version of the same product. similarly both Treestuff and Xtreme arborists are Both sponsors here at treebuzz so the is an overlap of interests going on at the same time and this is what I am being troubled with.
If ABR and Treestuff have spent 12 months or more whilst they brought their arbo ring to the marketplace while at the same time still selling the X-ring products then isn't there a conflict of interest around that area?.

Heck I love Treestuff and ABR , I climb on their products every day never had to pick fault with ABR and Treestuff's service plus style of business has well and truely won me over.

But David has gone to a lot of work testing the product and the time he has spent in advancing the "whatever" brand of X-ring to bring it to the marketplace . his own time and money, surely he deserves to be able to recoup back that investment before the alternatives hit the market place?.

By his own admission a large chunk of his time and money went into this venture and the spinoffs that are coming along from it like the THT are going to be uniquely his own invention and not able to be so readily copied.
I want as a climber to be able to benefit from advancements in kit whether for rigging or climbing.

I need a new harness soon and supporting a fellow climber like Matt or the Harrison throw bags I buy are part of this new scene like Kiwi Klimbers, there are other versions coming onto the market I said years ago someone should do a set and never pulled my thumb out to make some but others have and will make a buck while people like myself will buy their product and enjoy the benefits at work.
all good there as long as the other parties releasing a similar style of spur ascender don't start to argue who came first.

In this case we know who was first and I say there seems to be a conflict of interest and it does not sit well with me.
 
Hard for the little guy to compete, once the big dogs move in. What Amazon, Walfart, Menards, etc. have done to small business is criminal, I think... but I think there is a slow turnaround going on, under the skin of all the corporate gazillionaire bullshit, and people are getting tired of cheap crap. All we can do is support the businesses we're the most comfortable with, both economically and philosophically.
 
understanding that David did not invent the idea of a ring or running a rope in one, the way treestuff puts them off (saying by arborists for arborists) seems odd to me, considering the time and effort invested by David Driver and the men of Arbor X to introduce their use.
 
Stihlmadd said:
But David has gone to a lot of work testing the product and the time he has spent in advancing the "whatever" brand of X-ring to bring it to the marketplace . his own time and money, surely he deserves to be able to recoup back that investment before the alternatives hit the market place?.

By his own admission a large chunk of his time and money went into this venture and the spinoffs that are coming along from it like the THT are going to be uniquely his own invention and not able to be so readily copied.
I want as a climber to be able to benefit from advancements in kit whether for rigging or climbing.
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What I'm saying though is that alternatives HAVE already hit the marketplace. They were even in the marketplace before David. I don't think one supplier selling their similar version of a product is going to break his bank. The rings are priced the same (which was absolutely the right decision) so consumers only have decide which one they think is a better product.

And the THT, which IS a totally proprietary product, will do well for David. So he's got that going for him.

I'm totally for supporting climbers and innovation, but I also want the best products possible and I don't want improvements to be shelved just to protect someone feelings or investments.
 
I think that this is tacky at best. Yes Mr X did not invent the rings, but he did much more than simply re branding them. He made them adaptable to tree work, he tested the crap out of them, and stuck his neck out. Very shortly after they were released the major west coast supplier started stocking the Antal rings (the parent product). We have seen a major east coast supplier pull this in the past, and I hate to see it from ABR/Tree Stuff. All I hope is they asked X for his blessing.

I still haven't bought any type of ring.. And I do wonder how the non aluminum will hold up, and how the ropes will hold up to it.
 
The MBS is stamped but does that matter? Isn't the sling cordage what rates the system? Rope swl should be much lower than MBS of a ring?
 
The bend radius is improved. Regardless of whether or not it was a problem before, it's improved, that's what matters.

I don't see the stamped MBS being vital because I do believe it's the cordage that's more important, but it's a nice touch and some people care about that.
 
http://www.shizll.com/product/arboring/

this is a tricky one. It is true lots of people are making them. They are simple to make. It is nice being made in usa. Im suprised that it would be cheaper to custom make them locally than just buy from any one of the manufacturers that are making and distributing them in large quantities.
Wespur is selling antal rings now, as well as x rigging rings. For the same price.. I presume most places will carry the shizll. That seems like a nice system.

Using them in arboriculture is not necessarily a new idea. The idea of Marketing directly to arborists we can thank Mr. Driver. But is marketing propietary? Interesting questions. I'm not sure that boating and arboriculture are that far removed from eachother. The biggest difference being the size of the modern sailors wallet Which is why antal probably never made the effort.

Here is a post from 2011 about using antal rings for trees.

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/rigging-roping/37049-antal-low-friction-rings.html

what was the problem with the anodizing On the antal rings. Are there reports of it wearing badly?
 
From what I understand, it is just that if it does wear there is a hard edge created, unlike the soft anodization. So IF it wears thru, would be bad. Don't know if people are having them wear thru though.
 
macswan said:
From what I understand, it is just that if it does wear there is a hard edge created, unlike the soft anodization. So IF it wears thru, would be bad. Don't know if people are having them wear thru though.
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If you wear through or wreck any tool it would be bad.
 
A rope wears through hard coat anodization just like it does through baked enamel or powder coated paint. Nice, smooth, tapered wear with no sharp edges. It's hardware that chips it and leaves sharp edges. Most people notice damage to gear long after the fact, and usually aren't sure what caused it. Personally, and this is indeed an opinion, I don't believe it's going to damage the rope one bit. I think it will wear the edge smooth so damn fast there won't be any damage... certainly not as much as say, a rigging rope running over a sloppy weld on a PortaWrap device. Even those usually get worn smooth long before the rope shows any serious ragged effects, if you file the worst of the sharp edges a little (this one I have firsthand knowledge of).

The whole sharp edges of hard coat rope damage thing reeks of bullshit and paranoia, to me. I've seen manilla rope (not exactly tough stuff) on a rope swing wear a 10p nail (that was nailed into the branch and bent over the rope to keep it in place) and leave the end of the nail imbedded into the limb shiny and bright.. with only a slight fuzzing of the rope. I fully understand being very concerned with anything that might damage a lifeline, but this one strikes me as extremely unlikely, considering how long the same rope holds up to natural crotching.
 
The way it was explained to me was that the aluminum under the hard coat, once exposed wears faster than the edges of the hard coat. So it develops a sharp edge. It is not the wearing of the coat itself.
 
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