100 Questions for the Evolutionists to Answer

Re: 100 Questions-9 year old finds new bones

oh and hey listen i do not want to argue the point.....this is merely to say,or show another way of looking at it.
there is a pretty cool book (its not perfect),but it is a different way of viewing evolution.Maybe if a believer in darwinism read it they would have some clarity as to how non-evolutionists believe? The book is by Ken hamm and it is called "the Lie evolution." maybe check it out!!
 
Re: 100 Questions-9 year old finds new bones

[ QUOTE ]
...TCsafety- a theory is not just an idea, it is a story...a story supported by not only research but also by the lack of any other story that better explains a phenomena!

You are welcome to come up with a better story, tcsafety, but it needs to withstand the rigor of deductive thought by professional scientists.

Creationists start out with an idea and then select evidence to support it. Science starts out with an idea and attempts to disprove it.

[/ QUOTE ]

KyLimbwalker: I agree with you on the first two statements, but it's that second part of you first statement that I'm saying a subjective element comes into play. That is the worldview of the person making the decision about what "better explains the phenomena." If you start with the idea that there is no God, that miracles cannot happen, and that this is a natural world controled by natural laws then you may only see, or be looking for, what fits your paradigm.

The scientists, philosophers, and theologians who support Intelligent Design do so based upon the scientific evidence that exists, and postulate a theory to explain how it happened and/or how it got there. Scientists, philosophers, and agnostics/atheists do the same with the same evidence. ID folks start with the premise that it took an Intelligent Being to 1), start the process (provided the "thing" that went bang), and 2) develop the highly complex DNA with its irreducible complexities that cannot be explained with decent with modification. There's more but we'll leave it here for now.

Here are some examples of worldview subjectivity and, as I mentioned in an earlier post, how objective scientists don't like their worldview rocked. For premise 1) Einstein did not like the idea of his theory revealing a definite beginning to all time, matter, and space so he introduced a "fudge factor" - he divided by zero! In 1922 Alexander Friedman exposed the error. Other scientists saw that without this factor Einstein's theory was correct. And in 1929 he went and saw the evidence of the "red shift" of light through the Hubble telescope which confirmed his theory. Robert Wilson and Arno Penzias later won a Nobel Prize for their discovery of "background radiation" that also confirmed his theory. None of them liked the conclusions being drawn from their scientific discoveries, but they had to eventually admit that it was possible, and a valid deduction from the evidence.

In an earlier post I gave the two premesis of the Cosmological argument (Everything that had a beginning had a cause, and the universe had a beggining). The science, and the scientific Law of Causality which science is built upon, backs up these two premises. The conclusion of this argument, "Therefore the universe was caused," seems to ID folks the best explination that fits the evidence as none of the other theories of how matter got here in the first place have as much, or any, evidence to support them. The Cosmic Rebound and the Steady State Theory have been disproven, Steven Hawking's Imaginary Time theory was admitted by him to be an "imaginary theory," and the Heisenberg Uncertainty Priciple has no evidence besides denying the Law of Causality which is a foundational law of science!

I'll be back later to discuss 2) and your third staement. Right now I'm going to church and thank Him for providing scientific evidence that He exists.
 
Re: 100 Questions-9 year old finds new bones

Two books on this topic I found very interesting are "Unlocking the Mysteries of Creation" by Dennis R. Peterson and "The Flood" by Alfred M. Rehwinkel.
 
Re: 100 Questions-9 year old finds new bones

Ok, I'm back.
I do want to say up front that I don't want you to feel like I am attacking you, because I'm not. I've been passionate about these issues most of my life, as I'm sure you are about yours. Hopefully we can get together someday and talk more over an adult beverage of some sort.

One more thing for point 1). Anthony Flew, one of the HUGE philosophers of the 20th century, argued that one should presuppose atheism until evidence of a God surfaces. In 2004 he said that he had become a deist, which means he believes in some sort of creator being, though he is not a Christian. He said he did this because of the arguments for design were much stronger with all of the recent scientific discoveries (http://www.biola.edu/antonyflew/index.cfm). He has been viciously attacked because he said that it was better evidence and arguments (my terms) that led him to this modification of his worldview.

A lot of what led him there segways to point 2) and the rest of your statement. Biologists with a Naturalistic worldview assert that life generated spontaniously from nonliving chemicles by natural laws without any intelligent intervention. They believe that it was the simple one-cell amoeba. However, when Watson and Crick discovered DNA in 1953 the simplicity vanished. The DNA in an amoeba contains genetic information expressed in chemecal form that Dawkins said has as much information as 1000 Encyclopedia Britannicas ("The Blind Watchmaker" 1987). No one has come up with an experiment that has been able to get life, much less this type with this much information, from nonlife through natural processes. By the 1970s the Miller-Urey experiment was shown to start with a faulty hypothossis and has been disproven by science. Molecular biology shows that the so-called "simple life forms" contain irreducible complexities (cilliem, bacteria flagellum), in that the parts can't be reduced back to a stage where you would only have a partial-working molecular machine until enough time with slight modefications resulted in its current form.

There is no good working theory at this time in the scientific world that shows how life resulted from non-life, or DNA resulted from decent with modification. And it is a very difficult delimma: which came first, the proteins that rely on DNA for its production, or DNA that relies on proteins for its existence?

This is a small portion of the scientific situation and evidence that leads people to believe that an Intelligent Being started the whole process. Now, is this the God of the Bible, Islam, or some other view? That's where the debate is. Scientifically it seems that the evidence indicates that there is some kind of Creator, now the answer is Who? And the answer is not going to come from science, per se, because science only deals with the physical world. Science may provide info that correlates with a view, but God, Jesus, etc. is beyond the scope of science. Science cannot "disprove" the idea of God, they can only provide confirming or contradictory physical evidence to a specific religion's claims.

I've shown that scientists DO attempt to prove their idea with cherry-picked info. Theologians and philosophers do as well. What matters is a rigorous peer-reviewed and open investigation into the information, and then a healthy, passionate, and curtious debate on what explination ultimately provides the best answer.

This will always be difficult because there are people who hold their views with religious fervor, whether or not they themselves are religious. No one wants to think that they have been living their life based on an incorrect view of how reality works. What also matters is what do you do when presented with an alternate view that explains reality better than the one you have, even if you really like yours more?
 
Re: 100 Questions-9 year old finds new bones

Do you believe that it is possible that we as humans are not capable of completely understanding the process of creation, evolution, or being, regardless of religion?

I not only believe this, I feel that it is the basis of much of the debate over life in the universe. If we could back off and simply say that we may be wrong or underinformed, we might just become better listeners and learners.

-Tom
 
Re: 100 Questions-9 year old finds new bones

There is an old saying: "God is in the gaps".
This was in reference to questions in life not being easilly explained through science. Anything inexplainable was then attributed to God, or God's doing. As science has evolved (no pun intended) there are fewer and fewer 'gaps' and therefor instances where God would become the default answer.

As someone who believes in God I've often thought of the (apparent) limitations in science as God's off-side lines. No matter the developements in science there are things that simply cannot be 'seen' or explained (at least to this point!) Think of spectometry or even the universe in general. Space is enormous and can't be fully explored so who know's what's out there? Maybe Heaven. Maybe evolving chimps. It's just too big to see or know for sure and I think God made it that way. With no 'gaps' there would be no need for faith, and that is the foundation of Christianity.
 
Re: 100 Questions-9 year old finds new bones

Tom: I absolutely agree that we as mere mortals cannot totally understand God, this universe, or ourselves for that matter. Science has moved so far in the last 100 years that I think all fields believe they know more than they do. In Theology one comes quickly to the understanding that there is more to learn, but sadly many theologians (and preachers) forget that.

Christianity, and Judaism for that matter, believes that we only know what God has revealed about himself, and then still "through a mirror darkly." Science knows quite a bit about how a lot of creation works, which is a good thing, but less about how it got here. This is where many scientists start playing at theology and do quite poorly at it (Dawkins, Hitchins, et al).

But that's OK. Figure out what we can, but why do we think we could even figure it all out? I think it is quite arrogant of someone to think they can know it all. And if God exists, why would anyone think that we could, with our mere mortal brains, figure out the Divine One who created everything and sustains it all?

It doesn't mean that we can't think, though. I know, an uncommon attribute in some churches. But, God did give us a brain. And there are those who believe that God designed this universe, this planet, and the life upon it in a certain way so that we could discover His handiwork. Romans 1 talks about God's attributes being clearly seen. From the simple cell to the great Rocky Mountains to the incredible way a 300 ft. Sequioia can take hydration and nutrients to the top of the crown, all seem to speak of a magnificent design that goes way beyond what we will ever toally comprehend.

While the way in which He created may be up for some debate, it seems that it took a Being greater than we can imagine to do it.

It is good to set back and listen. But, if you have reason to believe, and you have confidnce in your position, there is no reason to change just because something new comes along.

This goes with your point, Rob. The Christian definition of Faith is trusting what you have reason to believe is true. Do you have to have 100%? No, or no one would have any faith. Do you have to believe what goes against the facts and reason? No, that's blind faith and what cults are built upon. One's Faith has to be built upon some solid ground. The fact that we don't have all the answers brings in the opportunity to trust. Our worldviews are package deals and ALL of them require some faith, some much more than others. So while there are fewer "gaps" to throw God into now ("Well, it's just a mystery..."), there are also more facts to give a reason for assurance in one's faith.

Last point: I'm not a pure evidentialist. I believe there are many people will not believe because they do not want to. No evidence will convince them. And that's fine - live your life the way you feel is best. I believe that it is God who changes the heart to allow the possibility of believing in Him and His Son. If one doesn't feel the need to change, then they should believe what they wish. However I know of many who came to a saving faith because it was finally explained to them, and info was given to them, that made sense. That's why there is the need to know what is going on out there and be able to give a good reason for why we believe, with respect, of course (1 Peter 3:15).
 
Re: 100 Questions-9 year old finds new bones

My Mom sent me a link to a wikiquote page. Of course, I have to see to check the 'tree' quotes.

This one caught my eye:

Among the scenes which are deeply impressed on my mind, none exceed in sublimity the primeval forests undefaced by the hand of man. No one can stand in these solitudes unmoved, and not feel that there is more in man than the mere breath of his body."

* Charles Darwin
 
Re: 100 Questions-9 year old finds new bones

Not to be rude, but religion has nothing to say about evolution and should not be included in the discussion. When it is, it is often used to dictate the "rules' of thought:

("Well, we know the earth was created in 7 days and that this took place less than 10,000 years ago- because the bible tells me so. Now how can we use evidence to support this preconceived notion?")

Your spiritual journey has nothing to say about evolution or critical thought. I personally do not think they are opposed to each other. The vast majority of people we pay to think about biology overwhelmingly accept that evolution does occur and it occurs through the process of selective pressures by the physical world.

Creationism and other similar ways of thought are overwhelmingly supported by non-biologists and non-scientists. That in and of itself should cause people to question how rigorous the research is in creationism.

BTW, to those of you that think that Creationism should be taught alongside evolution in schools, I suggest we teach this as well: http://www.venganza.org/
 

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