New RopeRunner?!?

DSMc said:
Cool, Steve. It's nice to hear your getting back into the climbing side of things. I have always found that being in a tree and being comfortable with what you are doing, is a very satisfying and fulfilling activity. Both physically and mentally.

Penny for your thoughts on the Vertec. I know you are delving deeper into various MRS techniques and that is certainly not the Vertecs strongest point. I find myself really liking this new multisender for my style of climbing.
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I don't have an opinion yet. Initially I had buyers remorse after seeing everything online but I'm gonna keep an open mind. I've just ascended and defended a bit. Walked around on the ground and tended some slack. It would bind but not consistently. I am interested in the best Biner. Seems some are saying the Camp to Rock O. Maybe above, too lazy to look. I'm gonna give it a go before I decide how I feel about it. I need to give it a good climb and try to run it through it's paces. I wasn't gonna get one but I like how it looks and feels so I made an impulse buy. I'll give my opinion when I have one, if I have anything to say. LOL. For now I'm just gonna say, it's pretty cool. I'll see if it works for me. I'm at the point with climbing where I put the Zigzag on the bench for now. Just too fast for my tastes. There was a point where it was perfect but I'm not there yet. I like the hitch or the Akimbo or RR at this point. We'll see how it goes. Thanks for asking though!!
 
I always want to give everything its fair shake. I saw a short on YouToob where a climber was claiming the rope was jammed in his RRP because it was wet. Believe it or not, this is what prompted me to try one out.

Sure enough, it was the user’s error and not anything to do with rope moisture. What I found was if the carabiner sits against the teardrop in the wrong way (preventing full bollard release), it will jam down there at the bollard and not tend at all. This can only happen when the RRP in unloaded and you are, say, returning from a limb walk and tending slack from below the device.

Just a little attention to use and it runs freely, although I do think a slight change in design could eliminate the problem of jamming at the bollard. It is a real thing, but only when the crab gets held against the base of the teardrop.

Now after running around with a RRP for a bit, I honestly have to return to the Akimbo. The RRP feels like a blast from the past in many ways, but the real killer is setting up a 3:1. I’ve found it can hold the device open and that’s not fun. Not sure how far gravity might take me if I just let go of everything…maybe someone can give me some insights on a better 3:1? I found if I rely on one arm on my ascender to hold a bit of weight off the RRP and then flipping the tail as I release it helped, but the Akimbo is more reliable in this vein.

Makes me excited to try Paul’s (@islandarb ‘s) what the bananas device. Looks like a pre order just came out. This also brought to mind of how many awesome SRS devices have been born out of garages in the USA! There are quite a few!!!
 
oceans said:
I always want to give everything its fair shake. I saw a short on YouToob where a climber was claiming the rope was jammed in his RRP because it was wet. Believe it or not, this is what prompted me to try one out.

Sure enough, it was the user’s error and not anything to do with rope moisture. What I found was if the carabiner sits against the teardrop in the wrong way (preventing full bollard release), it will jam down there at the bollard and not tend at all. This can only happen when the RRP in unloaded and you are, say, returning from a limb walk and tending slack from below the device.

Just a little attention to use and it runs freely, although I do think a slight change in design could eliminate the problem of jamming at the bollard. It is a real thing, but only when the crab gets held against the base of the teardrop.

Now after running around with a RRP for a bit, I honestly have to return to the Akimbo. The RRP feels like a blast from the past in many ways, but the real killer is setting up a 3:1. I’ve found it can hold the device open and that’s not fun. Not sure how far gravity might take me if I just let go of everything…maybe someone can give me some insights on a better 3:1? I found if I rely on one arm on my ascender to hold a bit of weight off the RRP and then flipping the tail as I release it helped, but the Akimbo is more reliable in this vein.

Makes me excited to try Paul’s (@islandarb ‘s) what the bananas device. Looks like a pre order just came out. This also brought to mind of how many awesome SRS devices have been born out of garages in the USA! There are quite a few!!!
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i think people will redirect the rope through a biner before routing into the moving pulley to solve that problem.
 
Hey don’t worry everyone, u can now buy the notch upgrade with a new friction plate and tear hole. interesting I’m surprised this was put out to begin with with the apparent design flaw. maybe Kevin Bingham or any of the other others had an issue with this…interesting though.
 
Yeah I feel frustrated by this too. I was under the impression that if I bought a Vertec, which I did a couple months ago, it would come with a revised friction body. It did not. And selling the more functional version of it for an additional $180 and then implying it is for those who are "performance based" arborists is a load of crap. My Rope Wrench is still superior.
 
oceans said:
Now after running around with a RRP for a bit, I honestly have to return to the Akimbo. The RRP feels like a blast from the past in many ways, but the real killer is setting up a 3:1. I’ve found it can hold the device open and that’s not fun. Not sure how far gravity might take me if I just let go of everything…maybe someone can give me some insights on a better 3:1? I found if I rely on one arm on my ascender to hold a bit of weight off the RRP and then flipping the tail as I release it helped, but the Akimbo is more reliable in this vein.
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Try the AK2 and a CT CRIC - awesome 3:1'ing will come to your life ! :-)
 
Njdelaney said:
Yeah I feel frustrated by this too. I was under the impression that if I bought a Vertec, which I did a couple months ago, it would come with a revised friction body. It did not. And selling the more functional version of it for an additional $180 and then implying it is for those who are "performance based" arborists is a load of crap. My Rope Wrench is still superior.
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Yeah that makes no sense. The revised friction body and “upgrade” should have been done in the first place. I heard they were aware of this design flaw but because of tcia and notch is greedy as F, they released it anyways. Lame. They no longer get my hard earned cash. I feel bad for the innovator who made such an amazing device to begin with. Long live singing tree!!
 
So the friction body is a running update, it was a change to the lower attachment point to “fix” the carabiner lock some were experiencing, as far as the new pulley body “upgrade” yeah I’m disappointed it’s a $170 option instead of a running update, also it’s not much more expensive than the replacement standard friction body. Almost seems like they’ve got something else coming
 
ghostice said:
Try the AK2 and a CT CRIC - awesome 3:1'ing will come to your life ! :-)
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Happy to try an Akimbo 2 because I am so happy with the first version. When I first heard a new version was coming, I was really hoping it would be designed with a MRS attachment point. When I saw the official ad for the new version, I didn’t get the impression I would see or feel much difference.
 
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There is a bollard version and a pulley version. Some people like the bollard version better than the pulley version. James Earhart, Jeff inman, James Kilpatrick, and Michael Curwen being people who did not like the RRP but love the Vertec with a bollard and are not fans of the pulley version. Derrick Martin also prefers the bollard, while myself, barton allen hall, and Krista Strating voted for the pulley.

James Kilpatrik didnt like the rrp at all but just won the itcc with a vertec and bollard. Curwen used both the bollard and a pulley in his masters at itcc but prefers the bollard. He is an official tester for notch.

The bollard works well on a wider variety of ropes and climber weights. While initially resistant to the bollard version, i have grown to appreciate its consistant friction and wider sweetspot. It is great for big descending swings. Where it lacks is the tending going uphill. I prefer the pulley at the end of the day, but i do feel there is a place for the fixed bollard version.

The price of all of it has been frustrating to me. But I am not upset about the bollard version. I think it is suited to many climbers even those that think they would like the pulley more. Both Curwen and Martin got the pulley version and then went back to the Bollard. I might pick the bollard on certain trees.
 
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As for the initial attachment point issue, all new runners have the longer attachment point. But if you have an older attachment point, a round carabiner works fine, the I-beam construction carabiners will glitch on you.
It has not been handled great i must admit. New attachment points should be free to those who ask for them in my POV.

As it is, I think it is easier to use a different carabiner than getting the whole new attachment point.
 
As someone that only has I beam style biners, I would probably ask Notch to throw me a round stock carabiner, but I haven't gotten a vertec, so I have no skin in the game.
The baby that doesn't cry, doesn't get the milk.
 
If you get a vertec now, it shouldnt be an issue. But yeah the whole situation has been unfortunate. I didnt catch the problem because all my biners are round and so were the biners of the other four testers. That was bad and sloppy testing procedure no doubt!.

it is still the best device out there for me, anyway. The short tether bollard version I would pick up out of the bag over the RRP just because ill get it on the rope faster and all my biners are CT. It was a better overall device so go for it, was my feeling. The spring issue was resolved with a much better design. Mor like the OG spring. So yeah I have to take part of the blame for giving the greenlight and being a part of the sloppy testing.


Ive always felt like as soon as the product is better than anything else it is time to release it. Like the wooden wrench was ready to be released when it was a stick and a hole, the zk1 was ready like the third prototype and the zk2 as well. Those were all so easy because of the simplicity. I love the Notch Rope Wrench because it covers a huge range of friction settings, it is light, it has no moving parts, it is simple, it is half the price of anything else. I thought that it ticked a lot of boxes so go for it!

Besides the short attachment point, I was convinced that the vertec with a bollard checked more boxes than the vertec with a pulley. The pulley is finickier with rope choice and weights, and maybe not as ideal if you are trying to sell to the big companies. I also wont deny that there has been a pretty intense atmosphere of competition within the small world of arborist mechanical friction devices lately and that played into the not doing enough field testing. We would have seen the vertec after the blackbird which was a gamble. Maybe the reflex has changed the game anyway, maybe not. Nobody wanted to risk putting things out after the blackbird and reflex. Im not trying to excuse, just is what it is.

I pushed really hard for the pulley though, and it was a process because with the new adjustable friction bollard it was more difficult for it to pass the CE. We got it though, it ended up with a little bity baby bump. It is definitly awesome. Always evolving though.
 
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