SRS rope and hitch

[ClimbingTN]

I want to buy a static rope but have questions. I’m still running RW and hitch cords. I currently use Samson hyper-climb and tango/silver ivy. I’m also playing with Pelican Arborist Viper. I haven’t tried or purchased a mechanical yet. I briefly tried a hitch on a KM3 and it was slippery. Is static 32 strand for mechanicals only or is something like blue32 ok for hitch. I’m thinking about mechanicals since there’s a few new ones but, hey hitch cords work! What say you? Craig

 

[treebing]

I have tried a lot of hitch cords but swwm to always come backe to 8 mm beeline.

 

[Neill]

@ClimbingTN
Have you looked at this thread?

Thread 'Rope Wrench - Hitch/Rope compendium.'

Aug 2, 2016

I searched for something like this endlessley when I first adopted the rope wrench system and added it to my VT for my first ever SRT experience. It was awful! Hitch binding on descent was the worst. It took me a lot of trial and error and searching different combinations of Rope diameter/hitch type/hitch cord to really dial it in.

I propose to anyone that reads this, if you have a system that works very well for you, type out what combination you use as well as your body weight. I will write out body weight categories and as you respond I'll fill them in, so that anyone searching for a...

• Drewtree
• Replies: 502
• Forum: Stationary Rope Technique-Half the rope, twice the

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[flyingmosstreen]

Been using blue 32 single line for a few months now. 28” oceans poly 8mm hitch. With rw on the arbsession caralink tether. Grabs very reliably. My lanyard is kernmaster with epicord 9.3mm 26” (a little short but works in this setup decent.)

 

[misfit]

I have never tried KM III, but I can't imagine there isn't a hitch that will work on it. If what you have isn't working, try another wrap, a smaller diameter cord, tie it tighter, or some combination of those. I have never found a rope where a hitch would not work, but I have found lots of differences in the ways all-mechanical devices work on different ropes.

 

[Njdelaney]

I climb on KMIII more than any other rope and the hitch cords that work for me are 8mm HRC, 9mm RIT and 8mm Beeline. I think with the rope/hitch cord interface, if one is hard and smooth like KMIII, the other has to be softer. There are a lot of hitch cords that are too stiff and smooth to grab reliably in my experience on KMIII

 

[ClimbingTN]

I’m sensing from the initial responses that a static and/or 32 strand rope works just fine with a hitch cord. I have several different ones that I’ve tried from 8-10mm. The 8 grips all my ropes reliably. The 10 needs another wrap most of the time. I guess I’m going to start searching for static rope. Thanks folks. Craig

 

[ghostice]

Richard Mumford had a great video on hitches a long while back. My own experience was I continued to flounder between 8, 9.something and 10 mm hitchcords and a variety of hitches until I found the arbsession hitch. Still use Distel and VT from time to time but that hitch was a sweet spot for me anyway. There are some constants in my life with hitches - they do get sapped up and stuck on conifers (Everclear and a rag to keep the cord and rope clean), on long raps down the hitch can bind up sometimes, and it can get hot (arbsession sells a 3D printed Hitchnut or Bino H will show you how to carve one on his YouTube channel), you can add extra friction with a ring/ biner or biner/ munter on your leg loop (either can save you from binding up so much plus it strips ice/ glop in winter). Still, in spite of all mechanicals etc., I really like the Hitch Climber Eccentric and VT though, for the flexibility in attaching to 2nd climb line and lanyards for positioning, an M rig, 3:1, etc. One hitch and one rope and one hitch may not work if you change rope or hitch or cord. But once you find your sweet spot it is amazing how well it still can work in spite of all the new gear on the market these days. Have fun.

 

[SeanRuel]

Been using blue 32 single line for a few months now. 28” oceans poly 8mm hitch. With rw on the arbsession caralink tether. Grabs very reliably. My lanyard is kernmaster with epicord 9.3mm 26” (a little short but works in this setup decent.)

What is your lanyard / other climb system? Interesting looking blue carabiner

 

[pcpTR33]

For tachyon I swear by 8mm ocean, almost every other line I’ve used plays well with 9mm Epicord (I fly either a knut or a catalyon).

 

[flyingmosstreen]

What is your lanyard / other climb system? Interesting looking blue carabiner

It’s the kernraptor from arbsession. 11mm kernmaster. And the carabiner and pulley are both teuffelberger. Nice and compact for a lanyard setup with MRS attachment.

 

[moss]

Epicord, Oceans Polyester, ArmorPrus have never disappointed. It is all about matching the eye2eye length and the hitch. A 28” e2e is a good starting point, versatile, you’ll get there.
-AJ

 

[Brocky]

Splicing a 3mm dyneema cord with a 6.8mm RIT cover grabs remarkably well, can usually drop a wrap, and works on a host “rope” of 6mm. Cutting apart a HollowBlock 2 works just as well, although more expensive, they are about 8mm on 9.5mm Max.

 

[Bart_]

It's possible that some of the posts in the SRT hitch/cord/rope compendium thread are quite old and refer the the first gen ZK-1 silver RW. There is a difference in the newer RW's be they chicane etc in that they all use the stiffy tether with spring-like pre-set and mimic the shorter newer red RW. The factor is that there's a "stroke" of the tether end of the RW during engagement and it interacts with the "stretch-out" that occurs during the setting of the hitch. Bad juju is when your hitch sets before the RW engages because then the hitch bears more of the load which leads to binding. Fortunately I think most hitches have enough set stretch to let a modern stiffy w/spring-like preset RW engage first or at least simultaneously. So the very early posts may not have this benefit. oh yeah almost forgot, the red RW set-stroke is shorter than the zk1

the hitches with a lump/knot structure under the coils seem to exhibit better grab probably due to the lump. VT in contrast is loosey goosey there, hence its reputation

belated nerd alert!

burnt out brain ramblings - tough day.....

 

[ghostice]

I never considered this kind of effect with the ISC Apex rope wrench perhaps. That and the Caralink tether and Arbsession hitch engages like - bam. This kind of interaction between hitch and wrench never occurred to me. Any comments on the ISC specifically maybe? Or am I blowin' smoke?

 

[Bart_]

Modern setups pre-engage the RW as much as possible without incurring too much ascent drag.

Try sitting into your rig after a short ascent and carefully view the engagements. It's enlightening. In my RW research I noted engaged RW angle as a criteria. Best done near standing on the ground to weight it in slowly. Then carefully watch the RW as you start descent. That should tell the tale. You can see bits of this stuff inadvertently recorded in youtube clips too.

I didn't have any of the newest coolest RWs to test with but came up with my own optimised home brew model. The chicane RW is at one extreme of config for lots of drag (by geometry measurement).

 

[moss]

Modern setups pre-engage the RW as much as possible without incurring too much ascent drag.

Try sitting into your rig after a short ascent and carefully view the engagements. It's enlightening. In my RW research I noted engaged RW angle as a criteria. Best done near standing on the ground to weight it in slowly. Then carefully watch the RW as you start descent. That should tell the tale. You can see bits of this stuff inadvertently recorded in youtube clips too.

I didn't have any of the newest coolest RWs to test with but came up with my own optimised home brew model. The chicane RW is at one extreme of config for lots of drag (by geometry measurement).

I like your thinking but it’s also worth considering that it’s very rare for a hitch to grab so quickly and thoroughly that the “bird” so-to-speak doesn’t have time to drop into the functional angled position. As you mentioned/alluded to if a hitch was configured so snugly it would create too much drag on ascent and a climber wouldn’t even get to the descent mode, they’d be done with it already.

One of the reasons the Singing Tree Rope Wrench is so successful is that it is forgiving, it doesn’t require perfect hitch tuning to work. The minimal requirement is that it grabs when a climber sits back on it. Beyond that there is a safe range of “it works!” from optimally tuned high performance to good enough.
-AJ

 

[Bart_]

I see your reasoning and basicly agree but raise you by one fatter guy caveat I believe the threshold between ok hitch function and binding is an absolute load issue and us -fatter- dudes get the load value up higher. If as a lighter guy you're operating further from the bind up load you require less contribution from the RW to still have a successful system, as has been your experience.

As an experiment if you're hosting a kids climb session, set up your normal SRT rope/hitch w/out RW and let a 70 lb kid , my bet is, successfully descend , no hitch binding sans RW. Or just leave it as a thought experiment.

FWIW I saw some vid I can't specifically recall where a guy named his hitch and it had near no sitback. He was demoing maybe the Apex(?) and you could see the RW almost not engaging whilst the hitch had already locked. vid wasn't loaded with useful info or insight


the og moniker 10" stiffy still makes me chuckle

 

[ClimbingTN]

Been using blue 32 single line for a few months now. 28” oceans poly 8mm hitch. With rw on the arbsession caralink tether. Grabs very reliably. My lanyard is kernmaster with epicord 9.3mm 26” (a little short but works in this setup decent.)

This is more what I was getting at. When I tried the KMIII the distel I usually use, was slippery. 8mm cord grabbed better than my 10mm. I’ve mostly figured out how to keep my RW from seizing when weighted on my 24 strand Samson ropes. I’ve seen a few posts about static ropes are for mechanicals only…but, that’s probably someone’s opinion. I just wanted a static/kernmantle to help with SRS and hitch cord. I’m on the fence if/when I try mechanicals.

 

[moss]

I see your reasoning and basicly agree but raise you by one fatter guy caveat I believe the threshold between ok hitch function and binding is an absolute load issue and us -fatter- dudes get the load value up higher. If as a lighter guy you're operating further from the bind up load you require less contribution from the RW to still have a successful system, as has been your experience.

As an experiment if you're hosting a kids climb session, set up your normal SRT rope/hitch w/out RW and let a 70 lb kid , my bet is, successfully descend , no hitch binding sans RW. Or just leave it as a thought experiment.

FWIW I saw some vid I can't specifically recall where a guy named his hitch and it had near no sitback. He was demoing maybe the Apex(?) and you could see the RW almost not engaging whilst the hitch had already locked. vid wasn't loaded with useful info or insight


the og moniker 10" stiffy still makes me chuckle

Ha! Yeah 10”, jeez.

You’d think in the case of the guy with the probable Apex that once he settled back the wrench and the hitch would equalize, they “want” to go to 50/50 weight bearing.

Weird thing about climber weight vs. hitch binding. I bind a hitch on rope (no wrench) as hard as anyone. And little kids do too. I’ve seen that as well. I don’t understand the physics of it but hitches with no wrench in the mix want to bind no matter how light the climber is.

Even the ever forgiving Blake’s hitch will progressively bind for lighter climbers if they do a lot of hang time on it.

It would not surprise me if heavy climbers have a narrower range of rope wrench/hitch performance between “doesn’t grab” and binds up. It seems common sense but has it ever been tested head-to-head same hitch and rope configuration?
-AJ