anyone successfully start a business with no equipment or land?

IMO if you are just doing pruning, yes. But if you are doing removals with no equipment you will destroy your body and loose money quickly.
Establishing a network of disposal sites will be key, nurseries, masons, landscapers, landscape supply houses, garden clubs, city parks, any and every place with land.
 
Do they have elephants at the zoo? Somebody at the Toledo Zoo told me they'd take all the brush they could to feed the elephants (but too far from me to drop there).
 
TeachableHuman said:
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I had another question....Say I form the LLC, and purchase some level of insurance (just General Liability for cheap? doubt thats enough for tree work...not sure yet) If I go and do some contract climbing to fill the gaps in work can I just do it all under the LLC so im covered? or is there any reason I cant do that since working for someone elses jobsite? I have only ever done sidework for cash and cant wrap my head around all this.
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If you want best answers, you need an accountant, attorney, and insurance agent. If you have a relationship with one who you trust, start there and ask for references to the other 2.

But...FWIW, an LLC is a "legal person" who owns the LLC. There can be several ownership structures of an LLC - including single owner. One reason to have a single owner LLC is if the LLC owns all the assets of the business and the money flows through the LLC it should provide a layer of protection should something go wrong you cannot loose more than the LLC - your house and retirement income are not on the line. (Or personal financial problems cannot take the business). But that's where it's important to have an attorney involved. A lot of self employed LLC owners mesh personal and business to a point of it goes bad any lawyer can demonstrate that they behaved as one and therefore the assets of one actually belong to both so they can take both.

Insurance...when you go get general liability insurance for a business they are gonna need to put a business code in the computer...if they don't put tree work in and you break something doing tree work, they aren't gonna cover that.

If you are subcontracting for someone else, let's say you break something. The client will go after they person they contracted with... technically you have no liability directly to them. BUT the contractor you are working for should have a contract that transfers your liability to you. Depending on how that is arranged, you (or your insurance) pay for the damages OR original contractor (or their insurance) pays for damages then comes back to you/insurance
 
Thanks everyone, This brainstorm exercise of sorts has helped me get my thoughts together and have some direction how I can proceed. I now have a list of independent insurance folks lined up to call, a list of [potential dump sites to investigate, some rolloff/dumpster places to investigate.

yes I have a M-F full time gig for now so I am in a good spot to grow slowly and not stress the workload or lackthereof
 
flushcut said:
IMO if you are just doing pruning, yes. But if you are doing removals with no equipment you will destroy your body and loose money quickly.
Establishing a network of disposal sites will be key, nurseries, masons, landscapers, landscape supply houses, garden clubs, city parks, any and every place with land.
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All dependent on where you live on this globe. Here in Barbados equipment is super expensive while labor is not. Dump is free. So you can run a sucessful operation with no iron. Many hands make light work. Saying that a mini is in my future. But my biz is 16 years old.
 
I anticipate mostly removals and odd jobs 90 percent of the time to start. But hopefully the end result is mostly pruning and tree care, which I think is very possible given the culture of homeowners around here.
 
islandarb said:
All dependent on where you live on this globe. Here in Barbados equipment is super expensive while labor is not. Dump is free. So you can run a sucessful operation with no iron. Many hands make light work. Saying that a mini is in my future. But my biz is 16 years old.
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Oh absolutely! It depends on location. Bean Town is one cluster fuck of a metro area as compared to down by de beach. My area is open but if I didn't have machines to move material off of custies properties in a timely manner I wouldn't be in business very long especially with some of the big sledge hammer crews around here that roll in with heavy iron.
 
TeachableHuman said:
I anticipate mostly removals and odd jobs 90 percent of the time to start. But hopefully the end result is mostly pruning and tree care, which I think is very possible given the culture of homeowners around here.
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Why start with removals if you want the end with pruning? Especially with limited ability to deal with brush...you make a lot less brush pruning.

Also what you do now helps set reputation and why people call you later.
 
ATH said:
Why start with removals if you want the end with pruning? Especially with limited ability to deal with brush...you make a lot less brush pruning.

Also what you do now helps set reputation and why people call you later.
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Just my experience doing weekend warrior type work - its what gets me on the properties. Also, most of my career was at pruning companies but I always was the 2nd or 3rd string removal guy if you will. So I like to think im versed in both categories to help fill my weekends/

Starting from scratch here. I hope my guess is wrong and I get all pruning work. That is why "tree care" is in the business name and what ill be marketing for.

Anytime ive posted an ad or asked folks to put the word of mouth out there I get mostly removals or minor storm damage type stuff.

this is going be a slow grind. with extra slowness at first. I just want to do it all legit and watch it grow.
 
ATH said:
Why start with removals if you want the end with pruning? Especially with limited ability to deal with brush...you make a lot less brush pruning.

Also what you do now helps set reputation and why people call you later.
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I always try to encourage people to keep the tree and let me prune it, but a lot of the time they have already made up their minds. Maybe I still have a lot to learn about sales, but I don't push a hard sell, and I don't want to turn away work. I am rural though and can usually just leave the material on site to be dealt with by the client later. I don't think I could make it work in a city setting. My SWA won't let you put too much weight in the big dumpsters, and don't wanna see logs in there. I could do trimmings into one, but I have to have the client arrange for their own disposal or it puts me over my limit for what I can charge.
 
Matias said:
I always try to encourage people to keep the tree and let me prune it, but a lot of the time they have already made up their minds. Maybe I still have a lot to learn about sales, but I don't push a hard sell, and I don't want to turn away work. I am rural though and can usually just leave the material on site to be dealt with by the client later. I don't think I could make it work in a city setting. My SWA won't let you put too much weight in the big dumpsters, and don't wanna see logs in there. I could do trimmings into one, but I have to have the client arrange for their own disposal or it puts me over my limit for what I can charge.
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Another thing I anticipate is not making much $ at all off these removals unless the scenario is perfect. I see these as opportunities to get on a property and talk to a homeowner so I can either
A) convince them to prune instead
B) upsell/add other work on the property (pruning,planting,PHC,cabling)
C) do the removal, impress them, break even or make alittle on the job. and get the chance with their neighbors perhaps.

something like that is what I anticipate happening. Ideally after some time im running a tree care service. For now im an certified ,insured tree climber trying to build a reputation.

of course ill try and make profit on the jobs i get initially, but realistically I sub out the cleanup and hire help there isnt much $ left. its a sacrifice/investment in my eyes.
 
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Serf Life said:
Similar thread from another Boston arb. https://www.treebuzz.com/forum/thre...ds-do-for-chip-log-dumping.49626/#post-768152 Having no land for materials or equipment is a big part in the equation of net income and scalability. Partnering with similar minded folks who have those figured would allow self-employment without constant headache perhaps. I started with an accord then civic then pickup, but rural so totally different.
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Accord then Civic. The natural progression ;-)
 
Way back in the day when i was young and dumber, i did A LOT of (uninsured) side jobs on the weekends with a 3/4 ton long bed truck. It's amazing how much debris you can pack in the bed and then do the human chipper shredder with a chainsaw to make it more flat and take up less surface area. I'd usually run some ropes and a tarp under the debris so I could lasso it all at the dump and have a loader pull it out or hitch to a big concrete barrier and drive off to unload. A rad Latino guy I worked with called that the Mexican dump truck. Fab some sideboards with wood and a hand painted sign in either rope or board font (this is mandatory) and you're a tree guy. I can't imagine running any kind of tree service now without at least that one, key vehicle type. The 3/4 ton LONG BED truck. Doesn't have to be fancy. Oh and get some insurance. Keep it simple. Keep it small and keep it all. The biggest thing is be honorable. Return phone calls, keep appointments, do good work yadda yadda.
 
TeachableHuman said:
Another thing I anticipate is not making much $ at all off these removals unless the scenario is perfect. I see these as opportunities to get on a property and talk to a homeowner so I can either
A) convince them to prune instead
B) upsell/add other work on the property (pruning,planting,PHC,cabling)
C) do the removal, impress them, break even or make alittle on the job. and get the chance with their neighbors perhaps.

something like that is what I anticipate happening. Ideally after some time im running a tree care service. For now im an certified ,insured tree climber trying to build a reputation.

of course ill try and make profit on the jobs i get initially, but realistically I sub out the cleanup and hire help there isnt much $ left. its a sacrifice/investment in my eyes.
Click to expand...
I started my company while I was working another full time forestry job. Bids and small jobs in the evenings. Jobs were mostly done on vacation days (had flexibility scheduling those). There was a period where they let me take some days off without paying. That ended. My direct supervisor said "why don't you work 4 tens?". I asked if it would get approved. "I don't care...don't until someone tells us you cannot - just get your stuff done here.". So that helped.

Anyhow...I've been there. That's where I'm coming from with a few points here:
*Since you are not counting on tree work to put food on the table or pay rent (yet), you have a little more flexibility to do what you want and not just what needs to be done to pay the bills.
*If you do removal and the neighbors call you, it's probably for a removal. If you prune and the neighbors call...maybe pruning, maybe removal. I did some removals early on because I wanted work. But then I started having too much work to do both jobs so I started saying "no" to (most) removals. If it was for a friend or part of a larger job that included pruning on the property we'd do it.
*I don't know that I've generated many (any???) repeat clients by doing removals...but many pruning and PHC repeat clients. I built that base while working 2 jobs.
*If you refer removals to "removal only" companies they are much more likely to refer pruning and PHC to you (both because they appreciate the referral but also because they don't want to send a pruning job to another company they compete with on removals).
*PHC is the 'easiest' way to build repeat clients. Not that it's easy...you really need to know your stuff to do it well. But certain pests just need continuing attention. Also, those clients are spending disposable income to take care of trees... Often removals are because it has to be done and that's not somebody that's going to invest in long-term tree care. Obviously, neither is always the case... Just trends I have noticed.
*In Ohio, and I'm pretty sure almost every other state, you will need a license to do any pesticide applications and that will require specific insurance so ask about that when you call around.
 
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