Cost of stepping off the ground

[Matias]

While the kit I use at present for work is about 3k, I have practiced tying a Spanish bowline for leg loops with a bowline around my waist and a tautline hitch for climbing on, and I know that if for some strange reason I must, I can get up a tree with literally only one single long rope. Give me $100 worth of rope and a shitty handsaw, and I can make something happen. I also fish for jobs as cheap as $50 to go cut a single cluster of mistletoe or a single hanger. I am poor and desperate, so I can't turn down work yet, but I would probably say no for less than $50.

I have gotten throwballs stuck, and I leave the line attached and tie it off; and come back when I have time and do it for the sport. If I can't get my throwball out of a tree, how would I get the branch next to it?

 

[Vicente]

While the kit I use at present for work is about 3k, I have practiced tying a Spanish bowline for leg loops with a bowline around my waist and a tautline hitch for climbing on, and I know that if for some strange reason I must, I can get up a tree with literally only one single long rope. Give me $100 worth of rope and a shitty handsaw, and I can make something happen. I also fish for jobs as cheap as $50 to go cut a single cluster of mistletoe or a single hanger. I am poor and desperate, so I can't turn down work yet, but I would probably say no for less than $50.

I have gotten throwballs stuck, and I leave the line attached and tie it off; and come back when I have time and do it for the sport. If I can't get my throwback out of a tree, how would I get the branch next to it?

Bump that minimum up to 120$ you'll make the same or money even if you work less. 20$ to cover operating costs gas etc, 100$ to pay you for your time even if it only takes you 20 minutes on the site you've still got drive time and time spent dealing with gear you need to account for, if people won't pay 120$ for a skilled job they aren't clients you want.

 

[Matias]

Bump that minimum up to 120$ you'll make the same or money even if you work less. 20$ to cover operating costs gas etc, 100$ to pay you for your time even if it only takes you 20 minutes on the site you've still got drive time and time spent dealing with gear you need to account for, if people won't pay 120$ for a skilled job they aren't clients you want.

It's kind of a ruse. Nobody has ever asked me to just do the one little thing for $50. I lead with that offer, and then they always ask how much more to do this or that while I'm there; haven't actually done a job for less than $150, but I would hypothetically. Those $50 offers are for folks that I pull over and knock on their door. Mistletoe just bothers me to look at, and it's not helping the tree. I do this for my neighbors and folks that live along my commute path, so travel time is irrelevant. I know that knocking on doors is frowned upon by some, but as I mentioned, I am poor and desperate.

 

[Vicente]

It's kind of a ruse. Nobody has ever asked me to just do the one little thing for $50. I lead with that offer, and then they always ask how much more to do this or that while I'm there; haven't actually done a job for less than $150, but I would hypothetically. Those $50 offers are for folks that I pull over and knock on their door. Mistletoe just bothers me to look at, and it's not helping the tree. I do this for my neighbors and folks that live along my commute path, so travel time is irrelevant. I know that knocking on doors is frowned upon by some, but as I mentioned, I am poor and desperate.

Even without travel time setting to low a price especially the first time you work for someone isn't a good move, I've had my own business doing primarily small jobs for 9 years going to low to get the job will hurt more than help.

 

[Matias]

Even without travel time setting to low a price especially the first time you work for someone isn't a good move, I've had my own business doing primarily small jobs for 9 years going to low to get the job will hurt more than help.

That sounds like advice my mom gave me, and she's a great bookkeeper. I will take that advice now I think.

 

[LBF]

I don’t have an accurate number as to what I spent so far and there’s still a few things I could use, but I’d say I’m probably a little over $2k at this point. I set out to spend as little as possible but still have a proper saddle. I picked up a cheap rope and some cheap biners, couple micro pulleys and some other odds and ends. The cheap rope is currently collecting dust, it’s a rubber band…

When I finally got serious about finding a saddle I was looking at cheap Amazon stuff and other gear and started talking about it and doing some research and poking on forums and finally decided that I really didn’t want to trust my life to cheap gear and really didn’t want to have to fight with poor equipment. This is more a hobby to me so far, but I learned the value of good and proper tools many years ago doing construction and realized that trying to cheap out on climbing was both dumb and potentially dangerous. So I’m now probably one of the better outfitted hobbyists. I’m fine with that, I feel entirely comfortable with my setup even hanging in a swaying tree 60+’ off the ground.

Some things I’ve gone cheap on, but it’s not life-support for the most part. It’s things like I made my own hook for throwing, I made a couple friction savers, and I have parts to build another lanyard. I’ve also made some of my own rigging stuff.

I have Sterling Scion and I want to say it’s a length of Notch Banshee for climb lines, a Petzel Sequoia SRT harness with the Petzl upper for it, Rock Exotica Akimbo and Rope Runner Pro, Notch Jet Step, just got one of the better knee ascenders, etc. of course I have a couple Prussic cords and a hitch climber pulley and stuff too. Pretty happy with my gear even though it wasn’t cheap at all. Taking some getting used to the knee ascender but it beats the heck out of just a footie.

With all of my current problems, having good gear makes the whole process more comfortable. I started climbing with just the saddle, some rope, throw weight, Akimbo and the Jet Step. With each other piece of gear, climbing got more comfortable and easier. Since I’m still having issues with getting worn out too easily (the last time I climbed before getting the knee ascender I was too worn down by the time I got up in the canopy to do anything much), so good gear makes a huge difference.

 

[islandarb]

Apparently coke has made a comeback with the kids these days. Did they not learn from prior generations that blow is the dumbest drug ever...

Lordy hard to watch 20 year olds get fucked up on it after seeing what it did to their parents generation. That, heroin and meth are my top 3 most dangerous drugs on the planet. There are others but these bring folk to their knees fastest.

 

[Barc Buster]

That sounds like advice my mom gave me, and she's a great bookkeeper. I will take that advice now I think.

It’s great advice! Cheap clients will recommend you to all their cheap friends in an endless spiral to the bottom. Quality clients will recommend you to all their quality friends. Describe exactly what you are going to do for your potential client. The better you are at painting a picture of how much value you are providing the easier it is to sell the job for a price that reflects your high quality skill set. Personally I don’t go boots in the air for less than 500. My clients expect that because I expect that, and I have done a good job explaining why my time and the value I’m providing is worth that. Sure I lose some bids, but the bids I do win more than make up for it.

 

[islandarb]

It’s great advice! Cheap clients will recommend you to all their cheap friends in an endless spiral to the bottom. Quality clients will recommend you to all their quality friends. Describe exactly what you are going to do for your potential client. The better you are at painting a picture of how much value you are providing the easier it is to sell the job for a price that reflects your high quality skill set. Personally I don’t go boots in the air for less than 500. My clients expect that because I expect that, and I have done a good job explaining why my time and the value I’m providing is worth that. Sure I lose some bids, but the bids I do win more than make up for it.

Very well said Barc.

 

[Barc Buster]

Very well said Barc.

Thanks man

 

[Bart_]

Another basic in the tree piece of equipment - top handle saw. A 201 tc was tagged $900 and a bit, taxed a smidge over a thousand. I picked up my 200T's for $350 used and they're still thrashing. Triple!

 

[Vicente]

Another basic in the tree piece of equipment - top handle saw. A 201 tc was tagged $900 and a bit, taxed a smidge over a thousand. I picked up my 200T's for $350 used and they're still thrashing. Triple!

Yea my 540ixp was almost 1200$ with 2 batteries and charger.

 

[Arb23]

$3k is a rough figure I use for budgeting climbing packouts for 2023 (ropes, lanyards, pulleys, mechanicals, light rigging). I tend to shop for discounts & sales to keep it in that range (Wesspur had a great 15% off sale on almost everything in Dec/Jan)

That doesn't include PPE things like:
climbing pants - $300
helmet (protos) - $300
boots - $300

That's almost $1000 in PPE before any climbing equipment (granted, that's nice stuff)
Add a $1000 540ixp and we're at $2k without a way to climb yet.

So, for budget purposes, I use:

$3k - climbing gear
$1k - PPE
$1k - climb saw

That's what I consider 'individual' climber costs, not job level costs - such as big saws, heavy rigging, trailers, etc.

So $5k per new climber in 2023 is my rough budget guide.

It adds up quick.
Can you do it cheaper? Yep, but I figure life/safety stuff should be high quality and it should break even after 4-5 jobs which should be < 1 month - and last 3 years (except for high wear stuff like ropes).

 

[LBF]

It’s great advice! Cheap clients will recommend you to all their cheap friends in an endless spiral to the bottom. Quality clients will recommend you to all their quality friends. Describe exactly what you are going to do for your potential client. The better you are at painting a picture of how much value you are providing the easier it is to sell the job for a price that reflects your high quality skill set. Personally I don’t go boots in the air for less than 500. My clients expect that because I expect that, and I have done a good job explaining why my time and the value I’m providing is worth that. Sure I lose some bids, but the bids I do win more than make up for it.

If I may, I’d like to add a side note that I’ve come across in my construction business. I’ve had several people over the years that I gave a price to and explain things as best I can and then they come back with some form of “well, I got a couple other prices and xxxx is cheaper but it really sounds like you know what you’re doing and I’d like you to do the work, but you have to match their price.” I used to try to negotiate those, but now, nope. My price is the best price I can offer for the quality of work I provide. I’m not negotiating. Don’t like it, hire the cheaper guy and good luck with the problems. It’s not worth it to negotiate, all you end up doing is hurting yourself.

 

[Vicente]

If I may, I’d like to add a side note that I’ve come across in my construction business. I’ve had several people over the years that I gave a price to and explain things as best I can and then they come back with some form of “well, I got a couple other prices and xxxx is cheaper but it really sounds like you know what you’re doing and I’d like you to do the work, but you have to match their price.” I used to try to negotiate those, but now, nope. My price is the best price I can offer for the quality of work I provide. I’m not negotiating. Don’t like it, hire the cheaper guy and good luck with the problems. It’s not worth it to negotiate, all you end up doing is hurting yourself.

Yep I'll try to work with people a little if I know they're financially hurting but it's tons like I don't rake chips stay here we cut the log to firewood only nothing moves etc.

 

[evo]

While the kit I use at present for work is about 3k, I have practiced tying a Spanish bowline for leg loops with a bowline around my waist and a tautline hitch for climbing on, and I know that if for some strange reason I must, I can get up a tree with literally only one single long rope. Give me $100 worth of rope and a shitty handsaw, and I can make something happen. I also fish for jobs as cheap as $50 to go cut a single cluster of mistletoe or a single hanger. I am poor and desperate, so I can't turn down work yet, but I would probably say no for less than $50.

I have gotten throwballs stuck, and I leave the line attached and tie it off; and come back when I have time and do it for the sport. If I can't get my throwball out of a tree, how would I get the branch next to it?

the more work you turn down the more you will make...

 

[Barc Buster]

If I may, I’d like to add a side note that I’ve come across in my construction business. I’ve had several people over the years that I gave a price to and explain things as best I can and then they come back with some form of “well, I got a couple other prices and xxxx is cheaper but it really sounds like you know what you’re doing and I’d like you to do the work, but you have to match their price.” I used to try to negotiate those, but now, nope. My price is the best price I can offer for the quality of work I provide. I’m not negotiating. Don’t like it, hire the cheaper guy and good luck with the problems. It’s not worth it to negotiate, all you end up doing is hurting yourself.

Same here. I don’t haggle. I’ll give a seniors discount if it seems like they are on a tight budget though.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I have gotten throwballs stuck, and I leave the line attached and tie it off; and come back when I have time and do it for the sport.

A tip I got from a mentor is to tie off the stuck bag with a little slack. Leave it overnight. Many times the tree movement over a few hours will loosen the jam. The next day, or later in the day you might see the bag unstuck

 

[Matias]

A tip I got from a mentor is to tie off the stuck bag with a little slack. Leave it overnight. Many times the tree movement over a few hours will loosen the jam. The next day, or later in the day you might see the bag unstuck

That might explain how my buddy was suddenly able to get one I had tried on two different days! He just yanked on it and it came out, and I was bewildered. I told him to climb up and get it, and he was teasing me the rest of the day about it.