2023 Contract Climber Rates?

[Reach]

8-10 hours....does that mean you typically keep your contract guy around for cleanup? Legitimately curious. Most guys I know pay for the climber to come in, put the tree on the ground, and GTFO.

We do not expect a contract climber to clean up; if we bring in a contract climber these days it’s usually for a large project, and the ground d crew usually has nearly all the cleanup done by the time a climber hits the ground.

 

[Fivepoints]

I'd like to see a job you guys bid (price wise) that would be 8 hours of craning and you're not bidding 10k plus. 1,400 is a drop in the bucket at that point.

Your market is very different obviously. Most full day crane jobs here are in the 4k to 6k range gross. Sure you can bid higher but you will not stay busy consistantly. I've never seen 10k days doing crane work and I have done so much of it I own two cranes and a 28 ton boom truck.

From a percent viewpoint we are pretty close. Our good contract guys are $500 to $750 here and our gross is about half you guys market. Ive never seen a contract climber with workmans comp here. We are one of three tree services in our area with it. There were 112 in the phone book last time I looked. Its not required in our state until a business has 5 or more employees. This definitely drives down our market. Also zero professional requirements doesnt help.

 

[Matias]

The cost of living is 3.64% higher in Asheville, NC than in St Paul MN. Yet. Contract climbers are still making about $400 a day. #sad

That sounds like the Asheville NC that I remember. I almost moved there, but realized that it was too expensive for what opportunities there were outside of becoming a professor at one of the colleges.

 

[Colin1234567]

$600 for 7ish hours, $100 every hour after that. Same market as @Reach. I believe I’m middle of the road price wise for this area, not the cheapest and not the most expensive.

 

[climbhightree]

$150 per hour is $45 less per hour than my grapple saw crane (also four hour min). A crane that costs $450k. What exactly are your expenses to justify charging almost as much as a crane per hour. Never fully understood this aspect, as far as contract climbers.

The top contract climber in my area is at $700 for a day no matter crane or regular work (at least the last time I checked). Typically speaking he won't help clean up. But in my opinion if the ground crew is doing their jobs right (along with the climber) there shouldn't be much cleanup to do once the climber hits the ground.

Insurance is a must for any contract climber. In my opinion they should carry workers comp for themselves too. They should also enforce PPE for crew that they are working for...since they could get sued if someone on the crew gets hit/injured.

 

[Mark Chisholm]

That is sad. The amount of skill and knowledge it takes to contract climb but more so the wear and tear on our bodies. $400 to me isn't worth it, I'd find another job.


I would also point out that not all "contract " climbers are equal, nor should some call themselves such. A contract climber should be the most productive climber on a site (for the most part) and be able to do any job that another climber could. Sad how some are mediocre at best.

 

[Chief]

$150 per hour is $45 less per hour than my grapple saw crane (also four hour min). A crane that costs $450k. What exactly are your expenses to justify charging almost as much as a crane per hour. Never fully understood this aspect, as far as contract climbers.

I don't have expenses to justify that cost. I have a skill set that when I show up no one else has on the job. At least that's with the companies I work with. If you have that particular skill set why hire me/contract climber? Do it yourself.
Cranes are much more an hour here, so I'm not close to them in terms of pricing.

 

[climbhightree]

I am glad to see you been on the buzz since 2008. So you are not just a 2-3 year climber with no other tree experience calling yourself a contract climber at the top of your game.

I agree, a skill set is worth money. Just saying running a crane, or running a profitable business is also a high skill set...plus with expensive equipment on top of it. In my market your rates wouldn't fly, no matter how good you were. For trimming or non crane removals the job price would be around 2-3k for a full days work (2-3 guys counting you).. You would be taking around half the money with no overhead, equipment cost, or leg work to seal the job.

I also agree that highly skilled climbing seems to becoming a lost art. Fewer and fewer companies have a good quality climber working for them.

But I'm happy for you if you can make your rate, stay as busy as you want, and have a solid exit plan. Because no one can climb forever...except maybe Mark Chisholm ;-)

 

[southsoundtree]

Gear, insurance, licensing, accounting, training/ professional development, travel vehicle, marketing, etc, are all overhead.

 

[southsoundtree]

$150 per hour is $45 less per hour than my grapple saw crane (also four hour min). A crane that costs $450k. What exactly are your expenses to justify charging almost as much as a crane per hour. Never fully understood this aspect, as far as contract climbers.

The top contract climber in my area is at $700 for a day no matter crane or regular work (at least the last time I checked). Typically speaking he won't help clean up. But in my opinion if the ground crew is doing their jobs right (along with the climber) there shouldn't be much cleanup to do once the climber hits the ground.

Insurance is a must for any contract climber. In my opinion they should carry workers comp for themselves too. They should also enforce PPE for crew that they are working for...since they could get sued if someone on the crew gets hit/injured.

A climber gets so many places, heights, and diameters a grapple saw crane won't.




Perhaps you are undercharging.

 

[27RMT0N]

Honestly I think some people here are taking it personally that someone else charges a higher rate than they do... Every market is different, and if a certain market can support a certain price, then you'd be undervaluing yourself to charge less.

I just checked, and in the entire market I work in, there are literally only 8 homes for sale under $1,000,000 at this moment (the cheapest is $710k), and if I had to guess, maybe about that many good tree climbers to serve it. So you bet I charge good money for my work, and I have no trouble getting it, others should do the same.

 

[data farm 26]

Hell yes. I think skilled labor, or any labor really, is like art in that it is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it.

 

[climbhightree]

Gear, insurance, licensing, accounting, training/ professional development, travel vehicle, marketing, etc, are all overhead.

Yes, but that is all overhead a tree company (or crane company) has on top of heavy equipment costs and higher fuel volumes.

As to my pricing, I just sold my business to bartlett tree. My man hour pricing and man hours per job were right on par with theirs for our area. As to my crane prices (which I am retaining) is based on what stick cranes charge per hour in my area and other knuckleboom/grapple saw ops that have been doing this longer than me. It is a price where I make the amount of profit I need, but also makes sure the company that hires me does too...and keeps me busy. I rather have consistent work all week long at a slightly lower rate, than have somewhat spotty work flow at a high rate.

I'm not saying his pricing is wrong, for his area. If he has the skill to back it up, and stays busy enough or makes the profit he wants per year...then go for it. But a slightly skilled climber can't look at chief's price per hour and think he should get that amount, especially in my area.

 

[DSMc]

@chisholm.mark, wrote; "I would also point out that not all "contract " climbers are equal, nor should some call themselves such. A contract climber should be the most productive climber on a site (for the most part) and be able to do any job that another climber could. Sad how some are mediocre at best."

I respectfully but strongly disagree, Mark. A contract climber only needs to be as skilled as they are claiming to be and have that commiserate with their billing rate. There are many bucket truck based companies that will periodically need a climber for simple work that is beyond their reach. They just need someone that can get the job done safely and within the allotted time.

There is most definitely a need for the 'top-gun' level climbers in many critical climbing situations, but you don't bring in a heart surgeon when all you need are a couple of stitches.

 

[RyanCafferky]

In my market I am considered one of the more expensive contract climbers. My company is an LLC, is set up as an S corp, and I am an employee of my company with a legit workers comp policy. Most of the time when I am brought in, it is because it is a big removal and there is very likely no crane access. A top level contract climber might charge a premium but their cost should be outweighed by their productivity. If I am on a job site, the company inevitably ends up saving because all the other man hours are considerably less. And let us not forget that I likely did something their employees did not want to do or the company owners did not want their employees to do.

I too am of the mindset that a contract climber can charge whatever they want regardless of “what the local market will support.” We live in a capitalist society where the market is supposed to determine pricing and eventually it always does (if you believe in capitalism and those economic theories anyway).

One thing I’ve been thinking of recently is if you looked at hourly bidding rates for tree companies throughout the year you would see a variety depending on how the work flow is that time of year. In our area in January and February often work is tight so people are bidding low but in the fall everyone has so much work that bids are high and sometimes folks don’t even bother returning calls. Should contract rates vary based on those market factors? Depending on your schedule it might need to.

As a contract climber, my relationship with my clients is hugely important to me. I am very selective about which tree services I work for and at times the type of work that I am willing to do. I want to do the hardest thing possible and get paid, but I want to do it with good people and genuinely want to help their business succeed. I’m not there to just squeeze dollars out of them. If it comes down to purely a transactional relationship I’ve already lost interest.

I have benefited from working as contract labor but in a lot of ways I think the individuals who do it are banking on the heat of a short hot fire. We are like professional athletes without the big salaries and most of the people doing it have no real insurance or backup plan. I keep going back to the idea of a different tree service business model that would encourage more long term retention of employees (and less contract labor) by dispersing profits in a more equitable manner. But perhaps in the US something like that won’t work because of my earlier mentioned capitalist theories and the race to the bottom, cut throat nature of business here. I want to encourage my employees to want to stay with my company and not to become contract labor in order to chase more money. But how our industry is set up people often reach a certain point where they see the cash flow of a company and decide to go out on their own and get a piece of that pie. Or they hear about big contract climber pay and decide they can do that too. What are they losing in doing that? Often it is adding another competitor to a market and that has the potential to end up lowering prices in that market. As a contract climber, they are losing security. No unemployment insurance, no work comp, nobody with that long term commitment to keep you busy and your bills covered. But that is why a good contract climber can and should charge whatever they want and can get in their market if they aren’t burning the bridges they are standing on as they build their business.

 

[KentuckySawyer]

Should contract rates vary based on those market factors? Depending on your schedule it might need to.

"Surge" pricing. Seems reasonable for any contractor to have an "emergency" rate.

 

[Stumpsprouts]

I too am of the mindset that a contract climber can charge whatever they want regardless of “what the local market will support.”

I agree a lot with everything you’re saying but this sentence is kind of contradictory to me. The local market dictates what a contract climber can charge… if they charge too much people will not hire them.

The issue in our market here is unregulated uneducated unskilled tree hacks who’ll do a job for peanuts and that keeps prices down. Folks are used to paying 2-3k for a day with a 3 person tree crew, so that’s what people have to quote at to remain busy. If we were to ‘charge what we want’ we wouldn’t work.

 

[Reach]

"Surge" pricing. Seems reasonable for any contractor to have an "emergency" rate.

We have an emergency rate, for anything that must be done sooner than what our regular schedule allows. In my opinion, if we have to pay extra overtime to complete your project, you have to pay for it. Our emergency rate is rather high, so we often lose out on those jobs, but that doesn’t bother me. I’m not working for free just because someone wants us there in a hurry.

 

[Friedrich]

why do you chargemore for cranework? because there is usually more turnaround on those jobs?

 

[Boomslang]

I have my regular rate, my emergency rate, and my fuck you rate.