I'm most afraid of the growing trend of people rejecting facts, evidence and science. Believing Trump won in 2020, believing that he was not trying to overturn the election results, believing the covid vaccines are poisonous and believing the earth is flat? The people who hold these beliefs (and I'm not saying that anyone necessarily holds all four of the examples) make me worry about America's future.
Fu*%face Von Clownstick
- Thread starter Nish
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Burrapeg
Been here a while
- Location
- Puget Sound
Yeah, my feelings too. I have no fear of Trump. I think he is finished basically; he will never regain the swing vote that his own big mouth and incompetence cost him. But he did a lot of damage and I fear it will take a long time to get past it. His constant lying created an overall climate of mistrust in government and science among almost half the country. He made it acceptable, even admirable, to be bigoted and uneducated. He seriously undermined our prestige abroad. And he does continue to stir up trouble, with such a large portion of the spineless GOP so afraid of his base and thus still in his grip. I do wish the Democrats could have fielded a more dynamic candidate than poor Biden but at least he means well; he is not a selfish, egotistical arsehole like Trump and, in any case, just about anyone would have been a vast improvement. Biden had my vote even if he was already embalmed.
Warped perspective? Coming from the man who proclaimed Biden a “cheater”, and Trump the “ blue collar” president. Pure rubbish.
Those of us who actually care about our democracy wouldn’t need to worry if Donald wasn’t continuing his Big Lie, and if some in this country weren’t continuing to believe and spread the Big Lie. We can all see that republican state legislatures are using the Big Lie as justification for their utter annihilation of voter rights, and their never ending gerrymandering. If you can’t beat em, cheat em.
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I stand by what i said. You may disagree. Cest la vie. I dont want to get into an endless back and forth where each side throws half truths at the other to defend their point of view. So ill just say this and depart the conversation...why is the media and the tech giants censoring what you can see and read with respect to trump, climate change, the border, and many other topics? What are they hiding? What are they afraid of? Do they think you are too stupid to make up your own mind? Or are they just influencing your perspective by barraging you with a single point of view? Why are you tolerating it?
southsoundtree
Been here much more than a while
- Location
- Olympia, WA
That's a no-brainer.
Nobody, and I mean nobody can be as great at being a selfish, egotistical, arsehole like Trump, as Trump. Nobody better. Nobody.
Simple Trump insites violence and spreads lies that are dangerous.
treegongfu
Branched out member
The greatest lie of the Trump presidency was the Russia collusion hoax.
Many here fell for it even though it was preposterous.
I think those who did, and even those who didn't, need to reflect deeply on this.
How the corporate media working in conjunction with the Democratic party, and treasonous elements of the security apparatus, perpetuated this attack on a duly elected president because they believed his policies and rhetoric a threat to their interests. And how these people convinced you of this dangerous nonsense.
If you understand this you may be less susceptible to future manipulation.
Many here fell for it even though it was preposterous.
I think those who did, and even those who didn't, need to reflect deeply on this.
How the corporate media working in conjunction with the Democratic party, and treasonous elements of the security apparatus, perpetuated this attack on a duly elected president because they believed his policies and rhetoric a threat to their interests. And how these people convinced you of this dangerous nonsense.
If you understand this you may be less susceptible to future manipulation.
dsptech
Branched out member
- Location
- North East
Don't hate all wealthy people, only hate the greedy ones.
treegongfu
Branched out member
Glenn Greenwald: Indictment of Clinton lawyer is also indictment of the 'Russiagate Wing' of mainstream media
Journalist Glenn Greenwald scolded the press in a withering article Sunday, writing that the indictment of a prominent Democratic lawyer is an "indictment of the Russiagate Wing" of the American media.
www.foxnews.com
Burrapeg
Been here a while
- Location
- Puget Sound
His policies and rhetoric were self-serving, divisive, and a danger to the entire country and the future of American democracy. The security services put the interests of the nation above Trump's personal interests; this is not treason, it is simply them doing their job to protect the country from an incompetent con artist who had no business ever reaching the White House.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
I think that you will find that more wealth is inherited than created or earned. The legitimacy isn't in question. The issue is an equitable apportionment of tax payment.
Surprisingly its actually the opposite of that. Dont know exact numbers, but its something like two thirds of millionaires are self made individuals who inherited nothing, or relatively little. Most of these are entrepeneurs or contractors who started their own businesses and prospered.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
There is a difference between wealth and income. You're talking about the latter, me the former.
Regardless, freeloaders aren't welcome. Having a tax system that is more progressive than the current which is heavily regressive is the issue.
I ran across an interesting article (which I can't find again) that had the total taxes paid by each income decile (decile is analogous to quartile, except by tenths instead of quarters), with the top 1% broken out separately. It showed all deciles paid roughly the same percentage of income in TOTAL taxes except for the top 1% which paid a small fraction of what the other groups pay. I found it interesting because it considered all forms of taxes (FIT, SIT, sales tax, real estate tax, capital gains tax, sin taxes, etc.) instead of just income tax like most articles.
Burrapeg
Been here a while
- Location
- Puget Sound
Still seems a bit off balance to me, even if the ultra-rich paid the same percent, their 'fair' share. Let's say a CEO in that top bracket pays himself a typical annual salary of perhaps 90 million. He could pay even a full third of his income in taxes and still scrape by on 60 million dollars that year.
- Location
- Retired in Minneapolis
You're right.
This is the difference between progressive and recessive tax structures. Most people don't understand how this works. I'm sure there is a great explanation via Google.
JCB
Branched out member
- Location
- Westport, Mass.
Since the start of trump's reign, I have unsuccessfully sought words to express why I will no longer work to change the opinions of steadfast trump supporters. And then today's news headline blazed the complete thought across the screen: "There are simply no remaining good faith disagreements about the result of the 2020 election."
It's that phrase, "Good Faith Disagreements," that does it for me. It states that people of good faith will learn of trump's failure to overturn Arizona's election results and from that moment forward will consciously accept that Biden is president, and concede that further words or deeds claiming the opposite are harmful to our souls.
For, if one is willing to doubt the sanctity of an election that was ransacked by people intent on causing an upset--and was for the n'th time validated by officials of both parties--that person is not negotiating in good faith. Moreover, should that person continue to spread dangerous misinformation, the society that we all hold dear may thereby be squandered.
It's O.K. to change one's mind, especially when lives are at stake (which they almost always are). Changing our minds based on new evidence is how our brains must work. Why not stand up to a friend who shares your pro-trump opinions and tell him that, based on solid evidence, you no longer believe that the election was stolen from trump. Now that would require true patriotic courage, integrity, and concern for community! (My mother would have done it!)
[Perhaps these thoughts are better stated in the article's quote:
"The late American author Joanna Russ once wrote that “ignorance is not bad faith, but persistence in ignorance is.”"]
[https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/trump-s-election-lies-would-have-died-out-without-help-n1279914]
It's that phrase, "Good Faith Disagreements," that does it for me. It states that people of good faith will learn of trump's failure to overturn Arizona's election results and from that moment forward will consciously accept that Biden is president, and concede that further words or deeds claiming the opposite are harmful to our souls.
For, if one is willing to doubt the sanctity of an election that was ransacked by people intent on causing an upset--and was for the n'th time validated by officials of both parties--that person is not negotiating in good faith. Moreover, should that person continue to spread dangerous misinformation, the society that we all hold dear may thereby be squandered.
It's O.K. to change one's mind, especially when lives are at stake (which they almost always are). Changing our minds based on new evidence is how our brains must work. Why not stand up to a friend who shares your pro-trump opinions and tell him that, based on solid evidence, you no longer believe that the election was stolen from trump. Now that would require true patriotic courage, integrity, and concern for community! (My mother would have done it!)
[Perhaps these thoughts are better stated in the article's quote:
"The late American author Joanna Russ once wrote that “ignorance is not bad faith, but persistence in ignorance is.”"]
[https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/trump-s-election-lies-would-have-died-out-without-help-n1279914]
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climbhightree
Branched out member
- Location
- Lebanon, Pa USA
I will confess I don't know much about this or really care that much. But don't a lot of CEO's get paid in company stock (at least a good part of their salary)...which isn't considered income till the cash out. Net worth and even stock is different than salary/wage. Musk's actual money in hand salary was only 20-30k in 2018ish...zero for 2020. Who here wants their stocks/investments taxed?
Plus if you really don't think a ceo should make the money they are, the absolutely best way is to get everyone that thinks the rich should pay more taxes (and/or all the Biden voters) to not buy products from those ceo companies. No Amazon, Walmart, Coke, Apple etc, products. Just shop small local stores...oh but you still can't buy those big company products from them either. It is us consumers that generate their wages.
Plus if you really don't think a ceo should make the money they are, the absolutely best way is to get everyone that thinks the rich should pay more taxes (and/or all the Biden voters) to not buy products from those ceo companies. No Amazon, Walmart, Coke, Apple etc, products. Just shop small local stores...oh but you still can't buy those big company products from them either. It is us consumers that generate their wages.
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