Vectran core, ice tail cover

[RBJtree]

I am thinking about making some hitch cords with a vectran or dynema core and using icetail as a cover. 4mm or 3/16ths core. Naked eyes would be easy enough, but I was also thinking about splicing it like a double braid. Would the self abraiding aspect of the technora be a problem inside of a double braid splice?
Either way, it might end up being too thick. Just thinking about stuff...

 

[moss]

I am thinking about making some hitch cords with a vectran or dynema core and using icetail as a cover. 4mm or 3/16ths core. Naked eyes would be easy enough, but I was also thinking about splicing it like a double braid. Would the self abraiding aspect of the technora be a problem inside of a double braid splice?
Either way, it might end up being too thick. Just thinking about stuff...

I’d go with Dyneema!
-AJ

 

[RBJtree]

I’d go with Dyneema!
-AJ

I thought about that too. I suppose there is about zero chance of burning through a technora cover, so dyneema would be safe as hell in there. Still wondering though, what would happen to the technora inside a double braid splice? Probably no different than a standard icetail splice.

 

[Joeybagodonuts]

Are you talking about a 12 strand inside of a 12 strand? If your planning on crossing the Icetail's, tails, at the center point & creating an x-over, I'm not sure where the room would be for another core.. or how you'd tie it in for that matter.. (tenex/icetail e2e instruction).

Interesting idea though.. Curious to see what you come up with..

 

[RBJtree]

Are you talking about a 12 strand inside of a 12 strand? If your planning on crossing the Icetail's, tails, at the center point & creating an x-over, I'm not sure where the room would be for another core.. or how you'd tie it in for that matter.. (tenex/icetail e2e instruction).

Interesting idea though.. Curious to see what you come up with..

Yes 12 inside of 12. I would do naked eye's with just the core like hand spliced hrc or bee line, or splice like a double braid. I'm not planning on using regular instructions here. Break testing is definitly needed. I probably won't be able to make an e2e that I would actually use with the double braid splice because I generally use 26 - 28 inch e2e's and I don't think I can make one that short. But naked eye's, now there is a technique where I can make a nice short cord!

 

[JTree]

I used to "double stuff" ice tail with itself, so there is room. Why do you want to use a different core? Because of the self abrasion?

 

[Brocky]

Plain Icetail on the left, next is a piece of 4mm Yale Vectrus buried, next is a dyneema core naked eye spliced, but the eyes have thin tight covers so the second locked brummel can be easily made. Last is Tech Cord with tied eyes in larger cover, this idea is Mowerr’s from awhile back.

 

[SeanRuel]

What is the reason for this rope in rope thing? I don't understand what you're trying to achieve, honestly curious

 

[RBJtree]

Several reasons:
I like icetail, but want it in 10mm.
I like ice tail, but it gets kinda flat.
I like the naked eye splice. Need a class 2 hollow braid core to do it.
I like the naked eye splice, but I am not thrilled with hrc or bee line cover.
The normal icetail splice with overlapping buries pretty much accomplishes what I want,
but I just want to play with this idea because I might like it better.
Eliminates internal self abrasion concerns.
I would like to try a double braid splice with the two 12 strand cords just to see if I can,
and if it works well and breaks high.

 

[RBJtree]

Plain Icetail on the left, next is a piece of 4mm Yale Vectrus buried, next is a dyneema core naked eye spliced, but the eyes have thin tight covers so the second locked brummel can be easily made. Last is Tech Cord with tied eyes in larger cover, this idea is Mowerr’s from awhile back.
View attachment 63527

I like the idea of a cover on the naked eye. Where did you get the cover? I assume it was the cover from a 5 or 6 mm cord?

 

[evo]

They make ice tail with a core for machine sewn eyes. I’m sure there is a way you could splice this by hand if needed.
If I were to try to run a core into it, I’d just stick with nylon. Perhaps oceans core? But your loosing me on the naked eye, personally I hate them.

 

[Joeybagodonuts]

They make ice tail with a core for machine sewn eyes. I’m sure there is a way you could splice this by hand if needed.
If I were to try to run a core into it, I’d just stick with nylon. Perhaps oceans core? But your loosing me on the naked eye, personally I hate them.

What don't you like about them Evo? I've never tried them before. I always "assumed" they would be real picky/snaggable & end up buggered somehow.. However, i was surprised recently when i saw a Buckingham MFG 8mm Bee-line version & the naked eyes had been treated making them hard as a rock. I tried to squish them & got no movement at all. I've often wonder if regular "whip dip" has this same effect or if it's a different type of product they are using.... as i'd like to have some for rope ends & knotted hitch cord.

Several reasons:
I like icetail, but want it in 10mm.
I like ice tail, but it gets kinda flat.
I like the naked eye splice. Need a class 2 hollow braid core to do it.
I like the naked eye splice, but I am not thrilled with hrc or bee line cover.
The normal icetail splice with overlapping buries pretty much accomplishes what I want,
but I just want to play with this idea because I might like it better.
Eliminates internal self abrasion concerns.
I would like to try a double braid splice with the two 12 strand cords just to see if I can,
and if it works well and breaks high.

I gotchya.. you want it thicker.. doing the overlapping buries will absolutely give you what your looking for.. I've done a few with ice tail, when done correctly & not buggered up, they come out really nice & uniform (ring loops & something else i can't recall). You can also fine tune that aspect too. Leave more, Take more, in the buried sections depending on how big or small you want the main body of it. For example, if you wanted it even thicker, instead of removing 3 core stands before the buries, do 2-1/2 or 2.. see what that gets you.. However, the more you leave in there, the tighter that x-over will be too work with..

Just for clarity, when you reference "naked eye splice" are you considering that to consist of brummels & just a short bury, no x-over? I ask for clarification as, both Brummel & Short bury + Brummel & X-over are naturally going to be naked.. unless you go outside the norm & add a cover on the eye.. you know what i mean?

 

[Brocky]

3mm buried in Icetail gives a 10mm diameter cord, 4mm looks to be 11mm.
I don’t think there are any worries about using aramids in a splice, they won’t see the type of wear that a small diameter ring on a bridge would experience.
The double braid idea sounds good, but not sure the Icetail could go inside a 3mm or 4mm core.
This is the cover from Bluewater’s Titan cord on 3mm dyneema showing how the cover tails can be laced into the locked brummel to lock them in place.


Basically anything that will stick on and coat the eye can be used.

 

[evo]

I like that very much, Brocky!

 

[RBJtree]

3mm buried in Icetail gives a 10mm diameter cord, 4mm looks to be 11mm.
I don’t think there are any worries about using aramids in a splice, they won’t see the type of wear that a small diameter ring on a bridge would experience.
The double braid idea sounds good, but not sure the Icetail could go inside a 3mm or 4mm core.
This is the cover from Bluewater’s Titan cord on 3mm dyneema showing how the cover tails can be laced into the locked brummel to lock them in place.
View attachment 63533
View attachment 63532
Basically anything that will stick on and coat the eye can be used.

That is beautiful.

 

[Joeybagodonuts]

Hey Brock..
Cool trick you got there with the titain cover..

I've thought about the liquid tape..
Should there be any concern about chemical reactions with the fibers?

Also, do you have any feedback on the brand name whip dip? If so , does it go on thick like a plastidip & stay rubbery/flexible? Or is it thinner & ends up absorbing into fiber & becoming nice & hard?

 

[JTree]

Hey Brock..
Cool trick you got there with the titain cover..

I've thought about the liquid tape..
Should there be any concern about chemical reactions with the fibers?

Also, do you have any feedback on the brand name whip dip? If so , does it go on thick like a plastidip & stay rubbery/flexible? Or is it thinner & ends up absorbing into fiber & becoming nice & hard?

Your mileage may vary, but whip dip went on pretty thick for me. May have been a pretty old can, tho, so no telling what you will experience. It dried rubbery and pretty flexible, but not overly flexible either. I didn't like it very much for this application. I ended up just leaving IT eyes full nekkid when I was running this cord regularly.

Hey, I lost all my splicing recipies during my time away from tree craft. Do you happen to have the factor ice tail shortens with a full cord tuck just laying around? I could do the measurements again, but if you work with it regularly, maybe you have this constant laying around in a notepad somewhere.

 

[moss]

3mm buried in Icetail gives a 10mm diameter cord, 4mm looks to be 11mm.
I don’t think there are any worries about using aramids in a splice, they won’t see the type of wear that a small diameter ring on a bridge would experience.
The double braid idea sounds good, but not sure the Icetail could go inside a 3mm or 4mm core.
This is the cover from Bluewater’s Titan cord on 3mm dyneema showing how the cover tails can be laced into the locked brummel to lock them in place.
View attachment 63533
View attachment 63532
Basically anything that will stick on and coat the eye can be used.

Aha, I didn't know about liquid tape, looks like a strong replacement for shrink tubing, and much less expensive.
-AJ

 

[Brocky]

As someone stated above if any of the coatings aren’t used frequently enough they dry out and might end up costing more.

 

[Joeybagodonuts]

Thanks for the heads up guys. Id deff use the liquid tape for rope ends, like how the whip dip stock photo shows them using it..
Id like to get my hands on a recipe that is similar to this naked Buckingham Beeline e2e i saw. It was basically invisible & solution/dip was thin enough that it seems as though it absorbed into the fiber, i had no idea it was treated until i grabbed it & realized it was hard.. I'm sure i could come up with some diy recipie, but if you couldn't tell already, i do have concern about chemical reactions with the fibers.. especially on a life support eye. Half of me thinks the hard recipe would make fibers brittle, the other half of me thinks it's gotta be fine as its originating at Yale & being pushed out the door at Buckingham.