Sideways Barberchair

swingdude said:
This is good. Key word dependable
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Had one case where had finished the back cut felling tree with three experienced bodies on end of line didn’t budge it - was just standing there.

Ended up walking over to them and pulled line With one extra hand and over it came. They werent maxed out either. We were next to expensive target and anxiety froze them, and made damage even more likely.

Happened on other jobs too with considerably experienced and very practical people.

Easy to get judgemental, but sometimes have to be very aware of capabilities of even apparently experienced crew.
 
Guess I'm the minority here, I don't mind pulling a top or tree over with a motorized mechanical advantage. Like all tools you have to use it properly and in the case of an unexpected mishap, having a faster/stronger pulling power available could potentially help. Kind of like using a stronger saw to blow out a sketchy top instead of a ms193t. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the guy with a sedan out in the street spinning tires trying to pull over a back leaner, but I will often use the mini or a pickup if necessary.

I've done several trees like the one in this thread, except that mine were visibly punky from the ground, that I pulled the whole tree apart with a mini one limb at a time, down to the trunk. Of course this only works in some circumstances and you need to be decent with a throwline to set the ropes, or you'll be there all day.
 
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Jehinten said:
Guess I'm the minority here, I don't mind pulling a top or tree over with a motorized mechanical advantage.
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I'll also note that I work solo on almost every job, so there's no climber in the tree as it gets pulled. Most pulls, pretensioning it first with a stretchy rope is all the pull that is needed so that there's no reason to leave a cut top in place while going to the machine to pull.
 
Chaplain242 said:
Had one case where had finished the back cut felling tree with three experienced bodies on end of line didn’t budge it - was just standing there.

Ended up walking over to them and pulled line With one extra hand and over it came. They werent maxed out either. We were next to expensive target and anxiety froze them, and made damage even more likely.

Happened on other jobs too with considerably experienced and very practical people.

Easy to get judgemental, but sometimes have to be very aware of capabilities of even apparently experienced crew.
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Been there too man.
Add mechanical advantage to your mechanical advantage if you have to.
Also it only takes a minute of time and an extra prusik or rope grab to add progress capture to any MA. You or the other guy can let go of the rope and add to the MA.
@Chaplain242 I've fought w an old boss who was screaming at me to "keep cutting!"
Nope. My face, back, and hinge are right, this tree is barely tottering. Pull harder. There's more pulleys and rope in my bag.
 
Jehinten said:
Guess I'm the minority here, I don't mind pulling a top or tree over with a motorized mechanical advantage. Like all tools you have to use it properly and in the case of an unexpected mishap, having a faster/stronger pulling power available could potentially help. Kind of like using a stronger saw to blow out a sketchy top instead of a ms193t. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the guy with a sedan out in the street spinning tires trying to pull over a back leaner, but I will often use the mini or a pickup if necessary.

I've done several trees like the one in this thread, except that mine were visibly punky from the ground, that I pulled the whole tree apart with a mini one limb at a time, down the the trunk. Of course this only works in some circumstances and you need to be decent with a throwline to set the ropes, or you'll be there all day.
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I do the same especially large termite eaten Eucs that sound very hollow and crunchy with a hammer yet still weigh a ton.... Last one I did I even took the precaution of evacuating the house next door just in case. Funnily enough I got a substantial job with the neighbours the next week...
 
Jehinten said:
Guess I'm the minority here, I don't mind pulling a top or tree over with a motorized mechanical advantage. Like all tools you have to use it properly and in the case of an unexpected mishap, having a faster/stronger pulling power available could potentially help. Kind of like using a stronger saw to blow out a sketchy top instead of a ms193t. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the guy with a sedan out in the street spinning tires trying to pull over a back leaner, but I will often use the mini or a pickup if necessary.

I've done several trees like the one in this thread, except that mine were visibly punky from the ground, that I pulled the whole tree apart with a mini one limb at a time, down the the trunk. Of course this only works in some circumstances and you need to be decent with a throwline to set the ropes, or you'll be there all day.
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Some things require vehicles, however mistakes can still be made. I had a barber chair at 40' with 80' top being pulled whilst I was steering with a saw. Worked great, top of backleaner got steered through about 40' path through a copse of trees until tow vehicle stopped of his own accord with top vertical.

I vigorously pointed to continue and he did... quick.... barber chair she did and was looking at it for quite a while before the top dropped enough to see which side of the stump it was going to slip down - which luckily it didnt it kept going forward. Next time Sena's....
 
Chaplain242 said:
I had a bad one trying to finish a job after being sprayed in the eyes with pencil cactus juice. Nearly blinded me but decided to push on so didnt lose next job. Vision was impaired maybe 50%

Tried to drop large blocks and took out a guard rail. I took care too but vision was too misty and somehow got the back cut wrong.

Should have just forgone the next job.
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Tad extreme. Eyes are nothing to mess with Sir. Live and learn. Glad you are goid.
 
Jeez guys, I'm shocked that many of you exit the tree before pulling over a top? I have stood in the pocket and had big tops pulled over with truckers hitches, rope pullers, horses, Honda civics, trucks, backhoes, bobcats, skidders, fucking D6's, ect. Blowing tops is not much different than falling trees, as the same fundamentals, principals, and mechanics must be followed. Follow those rules and your golden!! Execute a perfect under-cut, then in concert you slowly and deliberately work your hinge, wedges and tagline. Once you get the weight of your top into your undercut you leave a nice lovely little strip of hinge and enjoy the ride! Obviously you are in a very compromised position when topping trees and a serious fuck up could cost you your life. Slow and deliberate wins the race when topping trees, and one of the worst things you can do is get in a hurry and pull too hard with too much hinge. A very good way to die gentlemen!!!!
 
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rico said:
Jeez guys, I'm shocked that many of you exit the tree before pulling over a top? I have stood in the pocket and had big tops pulled over with truckers hitches, rope pullers, horses, Honda civics, trucks, backhoes, bobcats, skidders, fucking D6's, ect. Blowing tops is not much different than falling trees, as the same fundamentals, principals, and mechanics must be followed. Follow those rules and your golden!! Execute a perfect under-cut, then in concert you slowly and deliberately work your hinge, wedges and tagline. Once you get the weight of your top into your undercut you leave a nice lovely little strip of hinge and enjoy the ride! Obviously you are in a very compromised position when topping trees and a serious fuck up could cost you your life. Slow and deliberate wins the race when topping trees, and one of the worst things you can do is get in a hurry and pull too hard with too much hinge. A very good way to die gentlemen!!!!
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Most of these scenarios are with dead crumbly tops and compromised trunks hence the setup and get out of dodge.

I know of quite a few loggers and arborists that have been taken out by branches falling during felling, and have seen the videos of crumbling trunks hence my choice to get out of dodge (often don’t have a rescue climber on hand either I may ad).

If trunk not seriously compromised, and I won’t end up in a rain of free falling branches then I am happy to be up there.
 
swingdude said:
Also have to add. Never got into too much assisted pulling except a couple guys. I do not trust clowns pulling with iron. Pulling too soon is disaster. I can see them in vehicle or such revving and just go too early. If on the ground I might risk it and have but it is just how I don't trust too many with my life on the line. Just island life. I take my time I am old but use the brain.
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The only time I have had a barberchaired tree was from an old boss who was cranking on a big dead scotch pine with a mini. I got partway through the back-cut and the ground opened up below my left foot, it split all the way into the stump.
I know another contract climber that got circle of deathed two years ago when a machine was pulling a big top. The tree barberchaired, COD’d him, his buckstrap failed, and he was catapulted across the yard they were working in. He spent months in the hospital, and his most lasting injuries were evidently neurological. He is back in the tree, amazingly. He was one of two climbers I know within the twin cities metro that had lifelong injuries from falls that year and one of three that had injuries from falling that year total.
The nice thing about mechanical advantage is that you are creeping up on “just enough.” There is definitely such a thing as too much, and it is dangerous territory.
 
rico said:
Look at your picture. The only part that did barberchair was along the outer edge that appears to be the only place with any sound wood. The rest of the tree was simply to punky to barberchair because the wood fibers were to soft, so they gave up very early and left that little strip of sound wood on the outer edge to barberchair.

A barber chair can and will go both above and below your cut when topping trees, and having that big old crotch below your cut would have most likely stopped any downward barberchair dead in its tracks.
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If the crack or split trunk goes down it's not a Barber chair and yes clearly the crotch ensured that the split went up


Was learned hopefully for everybody here don't trust ash trees

Most the time they act as they should but every once in a while they go a little crazy

That's when you can get killed pretty quick
 
Jehinten said:
I'll also note that I work solo on almost every job, so there's no climber in the tree as it gets pulled. Most pulls, pretensioning it first with a stretchy rope is all the pull that is needed so that there's no reason to leave a cut top in place while going to the machine to pull.
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Clove-hitch a log-midline before tensioning the pull rope. You will get continuous pulling until the log reaches the ground.

Fundementals of General Treework...Jerry B.
 
Daniel said:
If the crack or split trunk goes down it's not a Barber chair and yes clearly the crotch ensured that the split went up
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A dangerous and absurd statement Daniel!!! Whether on the ground or aloft a barber-chair is the vertical splitting of your trunk wood. When topping trees you do not have the benefit of the stump to stop a barber chair from going in a downward direction, which means that a barber-chair that occurs when blowing a top can and possibly will go below your cut creating an extremely dangerous scenario. Thus the infamous "circle of death", which has killed its fair share of climbers.
 
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