Question for SRT climbing

[Stephen Moore]

Maybe this has already been covered in a previous post or yoyoman's video, but I'll risk repeating it.

If you want to try to make it possible to be ground lowerable, you could use two separate SRT systems, and no lanyard. Then you would always be tied in twice while cutting, and if you used basal anchors for both setups, with separate lowering devices for each system, it might be possible to get you down without climbing. It would be nice if the rescue team also had some kind of mechanical advantage device available to raise the climber a bit, if he got hung up on branches a bit. (Maybe @SingleJack 's CMI Ropejack invention would do nicely?)

So, this would be DSRT, and like you imply, it might be a bit pricey to set up right initially, but it would be a sweet setup that would provide great work positioning advantages.

As far as a cheap SRT setup is concerned, the Rope Wrench seems like its about the cheapest option out there, just guessing. That plus one knee ascender might be enough. Those are all of my thoughts on this subject, currently.

Tim

Tim His point is that when he is cutting up his wood, he may have a tether chocked around the spar in addition to a flip line< trying not to put words in his mouth! But this is a common scenario, in which case if the climber is incapacitated someone will need to remove him from the system before lowering. It is for this reason if we choose to do this work without a second trained climber we risk suspension syndrome or even not going home at the days end. It is at your discretion to take that risk we all have and occasionally still do, just like many mountain and rock climbers assume the risk of soloing. It is a very selfish act.

 

[TimBr]

I've had the Spiderjack 2.1 for a while but since I got the Twinline guide it works so much better: because the pulley part of the twinline is cinched up at the crotch which allows pulling the slack out of the line effortless. I use it as back up to SRT Unicender which I climb on and then keep attached while I cut branches. So much safer as the chances of cutting through two lines is very low. Also descending on both is like a breeze. They don't interfere or slow one down both allow perfect control, both for limb walking and redirects. If you want to know any more tips using these just contact me on this or my facebook: John Moore

@John Moore; Welcome to the TreeBuzz forum! Great first post! Are you Stephen's relative? I look forward to reading more from you!

Tim

 

[TimBr]

Tim His point is that when he is cutting up his wood, he may have a tether chocked around the spar in addition to a flip line< trying not to put words in his mouth! But this is a common scenario, in which case if the climber is incapacitated someone will need to remove him from the system before lowering. It is for this reason if we choose to do this work without a second trained climber we risk suspension syndrome or even not going home at the days end. It is at your discretion to take that risk we all have and occasionally still do, just like many mountain and rock climbers assume the risk of soloing. It is a very selfish act.

I don't really agree with your assessment of how @Zacchaeus might have his system configured, since I think at the time of his posts he had yet to try SRT at all, I believe. But yes, the fact that there are many scenarios in which a climber might not be capable of being lowered from the ground was the whole point of much of this thread, and searching for ways of operating that might make it possible.

To the point of being selfish: If I only ever climbed in a situation where I have another fully trained climber capable of rescuing me out of a tree, I never would have learned to climb in the first place, and I would never be able to climb now or in the future. Climbers are pretty rare, in my experience. Because of all of this, I operate in a conservative fashion, with safety in mind. I love the quote one of the members of this forum has under all of her posts. It goes something like "Ships in the harbor are safe, but that is not what they were made for."

One has to live the best life one can while one has the great opportunity to live it. Climbing is a part of that, for me. Life is too short not to try to live it as fully as one can.

Tim

 

[Stephen Moore]

I don't really agree with your assessment of how @Zacchaeus might have his system configured, since I think at the time of his posts he had yet to try SRT at all, I believe. But yes, the fact that there are many scenarios in which a climber might not be capable of being lowered from the ground was the whole point of much of this thread, and searching for ways of operating that might make it possible.

To the point of being selfish: If I only ever climbed in a situation where I have another fully trained climber capable of rescuing me out of a tree, I never would have learned to climb in the first place, and I would never be able to climb now or in the future. Climbers are pretty rare, in my experience. Because of all of this, I operate in a conservative fashion, with safety in mind. I love the quote one of the members of this forum has under all of her posts. It goes something like "Ships in the harbor are safe, but that is not what they were made for."

One has to live the best life one can while one has the great opportunity to live it. Climbing is a part of that, for me. Life is too short not to try to live it as fully as one can.

Tim

It’s a good reply, but you missed my point, selfish only means that it revolves completely around you. That means the risk will be totally your decision, right or wrong. Nobody here will shame or tell you it can’t be done. I said I do it and will continue to climb solo or with untrained ground crew, because I live in an area that may have 3 climbers in total. My groundies are pussies and won’t fledge. If it needs to be climbed , and most do, I climb it. But I keep in the back of my mind the seriousness of my endeavour, we are also outside the golden hour to get to a hospital. That increases the likelihood of a fatality. Because of these factors I have a golden rule that I refuse to break, if I’m not 100% positive of the outcome I don’t start the cut. No guessing and all cuts must be perfect or close to it.

 

[southsoundtree]

Skimming warning.

You can be hurt and able to disconnect a flipline, especially before shock might set in.

 

[TimBr]

@southsoundtree; I agree with you 100%. For an SRT climber who uses a base tied system, he knows how important it would be to get that lanyard detached in the event of an injury that would require one to be lowered. It would be the first thing on my mind, at that point.

Tim

 

[Stephen Moore]

Here is a unique instance that would require a removal... The climber cuts the holding wood off a top, it goes between the tree and his body.... Spanish windlasses him to the tree. Hmm, yall think this has been done? The old back breaker 9000?

 

[rico]

It’s a good reply, but you missed my point, selfish only means that it revolves completely around you. That means the risk will be totally your decision, right or wrong. Nobody here will shame or tell you it can’t be done. I said I do it and will continue to climb solo or with untrained ground crew, because I live in an area that may have 3 climbers in total. My groundies are pussies and won’t fledge. If it needs to be climbed , and most do, I climb it. But I keep in the back of my mind the seriousness of my endeavour, we are also outside the golden hour to get to a hospital. That increases the likelihood of a fatality. Because of these factors I have a golden rule that I refuse to break, if I’m not 100% positive of the outcome I don’t start the cut. No guessing and all cuts must be perfect or close to it.

Stephen brings up a great point that is not discussed around here nearly enough. Knowing what is a Perfect Cut, and executing a Perfect Cut. Too much gear obsession (guilty of this one myself), and not enough time spent with a kickass faller/cutter learning the proper mechanics of cutting.
How many guys get hurt because of gear failure?
How many guys get hurt making bad cuts and doing stupid shit with those bad cuts?

Your a welcome addition around here Stephen!

 

[Stephen Moore]

Stephen brings up a great point that is not discussed around here nearly enough. Knowing what is a Perfect Cut, and executing a Perfect Cut. Too much gear obsession (guilty of this one myself), and not enough time spent with a kickass faller/cutter learning the proper mechanics of cutting.
How many guys get hurt because of gear failure?
How many guys get hurt making bad cuts and doing stupid shit with those bad cuts?

Your a welcome addition around here Stephen!

Thanks man, I always default to the basic shit. No fancy stuff in my undercut. Clean and precise.. no scrap left in side it either.

 

[AshWilliams]

How many guys get hurt because of gear failure?
How many guys get hurt making bad cuts and doing stupid shit with those bad cuts?

That pretty much somes it up right there.

 

[Stephen Moore]

Stephen brings up a great point that is not discussed around here nearly enough. Knowing what is a Perfect Cut, and executing a Perfect Cut. Too much gear obsession (guilty of this one myself), and not enough time spent with a kickass faller/cutter learning the proper mechanics of cutting.
How many guys get hurt because of gear failure?
How many guys get hurt making bad cuts and doing stupid shit with those bad cuts?

Your a welcome addition around here Stephen!

I will admit, I'm not nearly as talented as many production fellers when meeting cuts in my undercut, but I expect to have to dress my undercut just like a knot. Every once in a while I execute a perfect one without the need to dress it but that's pretty rare lol. But before I begin my back cut I ensure the undercut is gunned correctly and clean and dressed. I hope yall will do the same even if it takes twice as long. And if people ask you why you are being anal about it... tell them. You will be tack driving trees every time.