Contract Tree Climbers Association (CTCA)...

[JontreeHI]

Hi Tim, my reason for saying this is due to the responses from a thread I started last summer about the need/desire/possibility of a tree climber'a union.
I found a few posters to be shut down to the idea seemingly because of the word primarily. I don't have time now to find the thread, but it's probably a decent read if you're handy with the search function

 

[rawtree]

If we were attempting to "unionize" all the tree workers in America then I could see where big business might take offense. My vision of an organization like a "CTCA" has more to do with jobbing out available work and standardizing pay rates so that all parties benefit. Earlier I had said that 50 members would be a high goal for membership. To tell you the truth I believe it would be formidable task just to enroll 10 vetted professionals. Some may consider this to be elitism. I see it as a "Dream Team" of professionals...

 

[Stihlmadd]

create a guild as in the traditional term - The guild of Cutters and Climbers
a guild handled the recruitment and placement of all from the apprentices through the journeyman to the master craftsman.
before a union there was guilds which cared about its members, had rules of conduct for the members to follow on how work was to be done and for how much.
sounds better than a union as we are tradespeople and masters of our craft, the guild system accommodated traveling for work from area to area to increase the knowledge base for the benefit of all its members.

 

[Flex Abednego]

Double like on Guilds
Boo on the "dream team"
Rawtree your off the project, sorry bud.

 

[rawtree]

create a guild as in the traditional term - The guild of Cutters and Climbers
a guild handled the recruitment and placement of all from the apprentices through the journeyman to the master craftsman.
before a union there was guilds which cared about its members, had rules of conduct for the members to follow on how work was to be done and for how much.
sounds better than a union as we are tradespeople and masters of our craft, the guild system accommodated traveling for work from area to area to increase the knowledge base for the benefit of all its members.

Too complicated. That's a job for TCIA.

 

[rawtree]

Double like on Guilds
Boo on the "dream team"
Rawtree your off the project, sorry bud.

No problem, I'll take you off the list of candidates .

 

[rawtree]

CTCC: Contract Tree Climbers Cooperative

 

[Leroy]

I like the idea but I won't be making the top ten that's for sure.

 

[rawtree]

I like the idea but I won't be making the top ten that's for sure.

I would imagine that a company bringing in temporary contract climbers would expect a certain level of experience considering the added expense compared to their normal overhead for in-house climbers. You would need to be capable of doing anything and everything asked of you and on-sight and sight unseen.

 

[Leroy]

I can do that... not sure about how quick though!

 

[rawtree]

I can do that... not sure about how quick though!

If I implied that you'd have to be "in the top ten" then I apologize. If you meet those qualifications then you have every right to be considered. What I am saying is that if we had even just 10 qualified members that that would be a "Dream Team". There aren't many companies that could field 10 climbers with these qualifications. You'd have to be able to work with their best people and you had better have total confidence in your abilities because you will be tested (by their crew members) and expected to perform!

 

[Leroy]

I get where you are coming from. I've been subbing for this year only, I haven't come to any bridges I couldn't cross as of yet. I have worked for quite a few different outfits in my area and have only come across a few that I would say can "handle" a sub. Most folks waste A LOT of time, and as you pointed out it is very expensive time. Other folks are looking for a company man under the guise of a sub, to dodge workers comp I suspect. Strange world, fun though!

So in your idea... who is in charge of organizing the work for the climbers and how are they getting paid? I heard of a climbers collective type of thing in NJ but that was second hand.

 

[rawtree]

I get where you are coming from. I've been subbing for this year only, I haven't come to any bridges I couldn't cross as of yet. I have worked for quite a few different outfits in my area and have only come across a few that I would say can "handle" a sub. Most folks waste A LOT of time, and as you pointed out it is very expensive time. Other folks are looking for a company man under the guise of a sub, to dodge workers comp I suspect. Strange world, fun though!

So in your idea... who is in charge of organizing the work for the climbers and how are they getting paid? I heard of a climbers collective type of thing in NJ but that was second hand.

I don't know. How is a co-op run? Seems to me that the first few people that band together would be making it up as we go. I've already run a contract climber ad in the "Job Finder" and had some interest but location has been the limiting factor. The biggest factor is going to be the rates we have to charge. That's why it's going to be very important to have highly experienced people. We're going to have to be worth what we charge!

 

[rawtree]

I get where you are coming from. I've been subbing for this year only, I haven't come to any bridges I couldn't cross as of yet. I have worked for quite a few different outfits in my area and have only come across a few that I would say can "handle" a sub. Most folks waste A LOT of time, and as you pointed out it is very expensive time. Other folks are looking for a company man under the guise of a sub, to dodge workers comp I suspect. Strange world, fun though!

So in your idea... who is in charge of organizing the work for the climbers and how are they getting paid? I heard of a climbers collective type of thing in NJ but that was second hand.

ps I hope that pic on your profile isn't you. That'll be a little hard to sell...

 

[Leroy]

Probably will need different rates in different areas right? I bet there's a computer program that would help mange things a bit.

Don't worry, that's not me!

Maybe to start we could look into a shared insurance policy and continue to schedule our own work in the beginning. If someone causes the rates to raise there should be a penalty no? And maybe everyone could put a small percentage of their earnings to an injured climbers fund? Just throwing ideas out.

 

[Mark13y]

Sounds like something I'd be interested in, especially if it gets me cheaper insurance. I work full time and only contract on the weekend, but in my area (east of Cleveland) I'm charging $75/hr, 200 minimum.

 

[rawtree]

Probably will need different rates in different areas right? I bet there's a computer program that would help mange things a bit.

Don't worry, that's not me!

Maybe to start we could look into a shared insurance policy and continue to schedule our own work in the beginning. If someone causes the rates to raise there should be a penalty no? And maybe everyone could put a small percentage of their earnings to an injured climbers fund? Just throwing ideas out.

Especially at the start everyone will keep selling their own work. When we begin to advertise and the first inquiries start coming in then location would be the factor. Whoever is closest would be responsible with pursuing the lead and would have the backing of the group to help influence the sale.

Liability insurance is cheap and accidents do happen. If you are a contract climber and self employed then you know about living without worker's comp. For a true contract climber you know that comp is so that you can get your full rate for your work and the company you're working with doesn't tax you on your entire fee towards his comp and take it off your bill. Contract climbers do not get hurt because we can not afford to be hurt! The few times I have had comp have been very comforting. I have worked 90 percent of my 39 year career without any type of medical insurance. If someone in our group gets hurt and it affects the rates then that's just the way it is. The caliper of the people we would be working with would be much different than your average tree crew and I would expect that no ones going to get hurt on purpose just for the comp. I could not imagine penalizing one of our group for a legitimate work injury. Now, if things keep happening we'd have to have a way of dealing with a situation like that and I think it would be some kind of expulsion from the co-op. With this project nothing can move forward until we all had full worker's comp certificates!

 

[rawtree]

Sounds like something I'd be interested in, especially if it gets me cheaper insurance. I work full time and only contract on the weekend, but in my area (east of Cleveland) I'm charging $75/hr, 200 minimum.

Are you saying that you have worker's comp? If so, are you "included" on the policy or is it a "blind" policy?

 

[Leroy]

I like what you're saying. The penalty thing was a joke... I forget sarcasm does not come through in writing. I have never had medical insurance either, just workers comp as an employee.
What are the advantages to this for you personally after being "on your own" for so long? If you don't mind me asking.

 

[rawtree]

I like what you're saying. The penalty thing was a joke... I forget sarcasm does not come through in writing. I have never had medical insurance either, just workers comp as an employee.
What are the advantages to this for you personally after being "on your own" for so long? If you don't mind me asking.

I want to re-create what I have experienced in Europe with my "band of brothers". I'll tell you the whole story tomorrow if I have time to deal with this. American tree climbers are different; too independent; cause they're scared that we'll all find out!

I've got a couple of big days ahead of me after a long week so I got to get some sleep. It's "Season" and the tourists are back and I gotta take it while they're here cause winter comes quick...