zepplin bend for footlock prussik

F

freemanruss

Location
Gulfport, Mississippi
does anybody use anything besides the double fisherman's bend for securing the ends of their prussik loop? I have been using an unsecured zepplin bend for about five months now, and haven't noticed any slippage. I am sure it is a secure knot, with a better bend ratio than the double fisherman's. doesn't this mean it makes for a stronger system? less stregnth loss for knot? What do you folks think?
 
Any way to put up a picture of the zepplin bend?
The fishermans is a proven knot with zero slippage when set properly, and excelent strength characteristics. The only downfall is that once loaded, it is almost impossible to untie.
Is there a reason you are looking for another knot?

Dave
 
You asked if anyone uses a knot other than a double fisherpersons...how about NO KNOT!

I splice a sling, with a big eye on one end to tie a Klemheist and a little eye on the other end to clip to. It works lovely.

love
nick
 
The zepplin bend looks like it could work loose similar to a bowline if rubbed on the tree or your body.

I have a slight variation of the fishermans knot attached. I know it may be hard to tell but the other side of the loop is captured in the knot as well. You can slide the knot down to the biner and it will reduce the chance of crossloading during the loading and unloading involved in footlocking.

Dave

PS- I do not use non locking biners for this, it was just handy for the scan.
 

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  • 4837-fishermans mod.webp
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How about using a fig.8 knot. Search and rescue uses this to splice two lines together. Less bend ratio and stonger then a double fishermans. Although, like Nick said, a splice is much cleaner. Both prussiks that I have are of both configurations. A DF and spliced.

Greg
 
In tests I've done, The half double fish out pulled a figure 8 twice. As for the double fish as a loop knot, the loop broke at 70% more than the cord was rated for - I figure that makes it about 100% proof when used to tie two ends together. Just don't expect to untie it after loading.
 
Hi, I discovered the zeppelin bend a few years ago and love it for certain applications. I find it's the best if I need to tie two bull ropes together for some rigging application that requires a longer rope than I have. I always use a safety on each tail for these applications because I've found it has a tendency to work its way loose. When i was first learning the knot I used to practice by tying the tails of my ropes together after flaking them into bags for storage. sometimes just the actions of tossing the bags around, on/off the truck,etc. would cause the knot to work loose in the bag before i opened it again, especially with the slippery nature of the ropes we use in the arbo industry. I believe the zeppelin has excellent holding power with the ability to be easily untied after a heavy strain, hence its original application as a naval knot for tethering blimps to ships. Personally I would never, ever use a zepellin bend for life support, only for very specific rigging applications. The beauty of the double fishermans knot is it's cinching power and streamlined qualities, it is the only knot I would use for a prussik, and plenty strong if using the right line.
 
Nick, which rope do you use for the splicing of a footlock cord ?
It would have to be over 22 kN breaking strength, single
line, spliceable with intact cover and preferrably 8mm (5/16"), not ?
 
Another excellent bend is to tie an alpine butterfly. Start with an eccentric figure 8 or overhand (both strands pointing same direction rather than facing) and then tie an alpine buttefly beneath it. Works like a dream, all of the dismantle easiness of a butterfly.
 
shake hands (100kb)

i use a zeppelin bend for a number of things but never for a prussic loop, it seems a little unsecure and knobby. the link above is the knot i use for my prussic loops and other things when i need a bend that i can be confident will stay together but won't be a hassle to undo. i would think that it is not as strong as a double fishermans but who's bungee jumping on them anyways?
 
The Zeppelin Bend is actually more secure than the Shake Hands and much less of a bother to tie. As with all bends, you should make sure you firmly snug it up by pulling not only on the standing parts but the free ends as well.

As far as strength, if you're using properly-sized rope, the strength reduction of your knot should be irrelevant, since severe curvature of any sort should be well compensated for by line size.

http://www.geocities.com/roo_two/Zeppelin.html

Of course, you can use a double fisherman's or grapevine or any other angling-type knot if you don't mind using lots of rope and you are certain that you'll never need to adjust or untie it.
 
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Nick, which rope do you use for the splicing of a footlock cord ?It would have to be over 22 kN breaking strength, single line, spliceable with intact cover and preferrably 8mm (5/16"), not ?

[/ QUOTE ]

My last one was Yale's UULS (Ultra Ultra low stretch) Double-braid 7/16ths ABS of 6500lbs. I left that one at a job site :( so now my current one is NER Sta-Set 3/8th which is not "legal" but is definately strong.

I've made them out of Yalex/tenex with success, too.

love
nick
 
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The Zeppelin Bend is actually more secure than the Shake Hands and much less of a bother to tie.

[/ QUOTE ]

??? I'm not sure how you can say that the zeppelin bend is more secure. load the two and then see which is easier to untie. the zeppelin wins hands down. the two bights on either end of the zeppelin can potentially be snagged and will pull the knot apart. not to mention the tails sticking out at right angles, whereas the shake hands tails' lie flush. and i can tie both equally quick, but i find the shake hands tying method easier to remember.

ok so i'm miffed someone put down my knot. but i really like it. :)
 
Security is not the same as ease of untying after use. Those are two separate properties. I can shake apart a Shake Hands (simulating demanding conditions) whereas I cannot shake or jerk apart a Zeppelin Bend. It's OK if fingers can intentionally untie a knot, but it's unsettling if a knot can untie itself under cyclical loading or flogging.

The tails sticking out at right angles is usually considered an advantage as it will keep the line from hooking when being pulled across terrain or debris.
 
One more thing: The bend isn't going to be pulled apart by getting snagged. Try it. Tie a properly snugged bend, and drag the bend across the most jagged terrain of your choice. Even if the bend gets caught, it will just get tighter the harder you pull.
 
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Tie a properly snugged bend, and drag the bend across the most jagged terrain of your choice. Even if the bend gets caught, it will just get tighter the harder you pull.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not true. If one bight and the opposite end are pulled, it will undo or loosen the knot. Very unlikely to happen with a properly snugged knot of course. Shake hands also has the same characteristic but the bights are less open. They're both excellent knots, I'd just rather not see shake hands being discounted as unsecure. And I'd rather not have tails tickling me in the face or wherever when I'm footlocking.

Also, I'm well aware of the difference between security and ease of untying, but they're related and are usually good indicators of each other if you're familiar with knots and rope.
 
Did you even try to make the Zeppelin Bend untie by getting it snagged? I bet not. It doesn't happen.

Secondly, I didn't discount the Shake Hands, I just noted that it was provably less secure than the Zeppelin and more difficult to remember and tie.

It's not true that ease of untying is a good indicator of security. The granny knot jams AND has lousy security. The single fisherman's bend is hard to untie and lacking in security. The Constrictor Knot shouldn't be trusted as hitch, but is difficult to untie. The Zeppelin Bend has excellent security and is remarkably easy to untie after the hardest strain. The water bowline has excellent security and is easy to untie.

Shall I go on?

(BTW, try locating your knot somewhere away from your face so you don't get tickled)
 
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