Why the F*%$ isn't Topping illegal?

Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

All I got to say is...come to northeast TN (johnson City) and literally see 50% of the urban forest topped. I have exercised every avenue: 1) public education - handing out fliers, articles in paper, on the news, no topping signs etc. 2) ordinances, trying to put teeth behind a no topping ordinance on city and commercial property.

Bottom line = you can't change stupid and stupid don't want to change.

I wish the ISA would come see the town I am living in, it is devestating. I grew up in the midwest and have traveled cross country and this pocket is the worst I have seen.

I would say 80% of the "tree services" advertise topping in the yellow pages here, and climbing without spikes, only HIPPPIES would pull a stunt like that.

I get calls about "my trees are too tall and I want to trim them back" then I say "you mean you want to make your trees shorter?" reply "yes" I say "I don't provide that as a service"

Then I usually go out and recieve a cross eyed response.

And when I am able to talk them in to proper pruning for a healthy tree, they say "it don't look like you did nothing, ain't you gonna take more off?"

Don't move to the southeast my arborist friends, and if you do, do your demographic research.
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

"You work for the railroad, do you, Grampa?" Blind Seer on Handcar: "I work for no man." Pete: "Got a name, do you?" Blind Seer on Handcar: "I have no name."

The old story about doing what your told whether it wrong or right goes back a long way.

You know who Rudolf Hess is?
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

Most city councils around Melbourne have Tree Protection Bylaws that require permits for removal & pruning. Exact rules vary from council to council.

It doesn't completely stop it, as trees under the size criteria can still get topped.

Occaisionally it happens to a permit sized tree by either hacks, homeowners or out-of-towners.

Generally though, the quality of tree work here is good, & if you focus on the upper class of the demographic then they appreciate & value their trees & are prepared to pay well for the people to look after them.
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

[ QUOTE ]


Bottom line = you can't change stupid and stupid don't want to change.



I get calls about "my trees are too tall and I want to trim them back" then I say "you mean you want to make your trees shorter?" reply "yes" I say "I don't provide that as a service"

Then I usually go out and recieve a cross eyed response.

And when I am able to talk them in to proper pruning for a healthy tree, they say "it don't look like you did nothing, ain't you gonna take more off?"

Don't move to the southeast my arborist friends, and if you do, do your demographic research.

[/ QUOTE ]


That's the bottom line. I read somewhere that the biggest factors in topping are people with lower education, people that inherited/ bought property with a topped tree, and being in a area with a lot of topped trees.


I think you are in a tough spot with your demographic.

Preface: you know your customers better than me----I would not say that "we don't provide that as a service." Seems that it would immediately disqualify any possibility of winning them over, as they might just think that you are not ABLE to do that.

I would re-direct them with, "Do you want them topped and more dangerous plus spend more of your hard-earned money in the long-term, or do you want them safer?"

I'd imagine that you'd get a lot of "topped so they are safer." This could be you're opportunity to see if they have their brain turned on or off to education.

Some people are stubborn and DUM to think that the right way to "cut a tree shorter" is to do it at ladder length or bucket truck height. Some might say, "Whadda ya mean."

KISS and go in to canopy reduction versus topping. You will lose a lot, but your might win get a few. The ones you "lose" you didn't want. The ones you gain will have family, friends, and neighbors. If they see a topped tree in the neighbors yard, and the properly pruned and/ or reduced tree in your customer's yard, you will have a side by side comparison. Pictures can be taken for a portfolio to SHOW people the difference.

Ask far as "aren't you going to take more off", I'd give them a topping versus reduction brochure before starting, try explaining quality versus quantity, before. Maybe do half the tree, then look at it with them, and play up how good it looks and how much healthier it will be, overall, than a horrendously ugly hatrack job that will stand out from a block away. I'd explain that its like a "remodeling on a house". At the end it should look good, not halfway done, like an ugly hat rack job.

I know, I know pretty much preaching to the choir.


I think asking them more questions about what they are after at the starting point is better than pontificating on the evils of topping might be a good way into the conversation.

So you want it shorter, eh?
Do you want it safer?
Do you want it weaker or stronger?
Do you want it more or less disease/ pest resistant/ resilient?
Do you want strong roots to anchor it into the ground?
You don't want the tree to starve, do you?
Do you want it to look natural, or like a wrecking ball hit it?
Do you want to spend more or less money on it over the years?

Do you want to increase or decrease your property value (in an area with rampant topping, topping could go either way depending on the buyer)?

Sorta the Socratic method?
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

You are right in a lot of ways, but down here is a whole different planet. When I first moved here I tried talking to my neighbors after they hired a door to door butcher to top their trees and all they said was "where are you from yankee? This is the way we do it" and basically laughed at me. So I don't mind being brash anymore. I'll say it again, out there in the pacific northwest you have a higher educated class of people to work with, here my customers are 90% transplants and I am such a small operation that I really don't mind turning down the dumb ones over the phone. I can tell within the first few seconds on the phone with a customer if they are ignorant looking for a cheap hack job and I may be a tree snob but I turn them away. I have spent WAY to many hours trying to preach and I don't have a lot of patience for it anymore.

And when I have talked the dumb ones into proper pruning, they are never satisfied. It's the "buffet" mentality they think they are getting more for thier money.

And yes I am looking to relocate, I'm just not cut out for missionary work.
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

[ QUOTE ]
I can tell within the first few seconds on the phone with a customer if they are ignorant looking for a cheap hack job and I may be a tree snob but I turn them away.

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't help but laugh when I read this... This has happened to me hundreds of times. You need to be a bit of a psychoanalyst to get the clients you want, and I know for sure when I talk to these types that I'm swimming upstream. If I sense there's a chance to educate them and possibly sell some good work, I will, but sometimes, "I'm not your guy" is the only response.

-Tom
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

Missionary work. Yep. I worked on a storm in Southern IL and my friend works there. Its too bad. I think you are fighting an extra hard battle if you're a Yankee.

Southern IL is a bit of a different world from where I grew up in Chicago. I lived there for 6 years. Its getting toward the south. Definitely a different mentality.

The lawn will prevail, often times.

You know the difference, I know the difference, but don't dare try to educate people and help them if it might mean that what their family has always done is ludicrous.
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

With topping, its not the consumer stupidity that gets me nearly as much as the theft from people selling it as safety and proper tree pruning/ cutting. Not only the theft of the people's money by doing this dishonestly/ ignorantly, but the property damage, and repetition of the cycle.
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

[ QUOTE ]

Not all commission salespeople will do that though. That's why I think it would be a good model to make a tree company's sales position more of a salary + bonus based compensation. It's too easy to see the unnecessary fertilization as an extra couple of bucks in the pocket.


SZ

[/ QUOTE ]

That's how I did it for those reasons

I thought I heard that topping was outlawed in Florida

How do you feel about topping crabs?
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

[ QUOTE ]
With topping, its not the consumer stupidity that gets me nearly as much as the theft from people selling it as safety and proper tree pruning/ cutting. Not only the theft of the people's money by doing this dishonestly/ ignorantly, but the property damage, and repetition of the cycle.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll just count my blessings that I am not in a market dominated by tree toppers. We have topped trees scattered around, but not prevalent.

So many tree (not arborist, that I've seen) services around here offer topping and removals in their advertising. Baffling to me. Seems like they would know that they are going to be disqualified by people that know that topping is bad, but maybe they think they're are zero-ing in on their target market, with repeat business built in. Not after people that are interested in pruning, maybe just cut some branches off the bottom to get more light to the grass, and some off the top so that it doesn't blow over in the wind.

I just don't get it.

I suppose that people work off of their own assumptions and misinformation, and figure that they can keep their trees, but don't have to be scared of them. and its cheaper for them (in the short term).


Some people are so closed minded that it doesn't matter what anyone else says. Stubborn.

Back in the day, I could see my dad being this way. One time he was right and the chainsaw was wrong. He got a 36" chain, so that means that it WILL fit the bar. Little did he know that it had an oversized sprocket on it. Hours, hammer, screwdriver, and he was soooo close to getting the chain on the bar. Some people are hard-headed.


Again, the topping isn't so bad as the mis-information. Some people are hiring for topping ONLY, no ifs, ands, or buts, bid the job or don't.

People are led to believe that it is the thing to do by a tree topper, based on bunk info, then they tell their neighbors.

Once I asked why the tree service had topped the sycamore in the front yard.
Customer: "Because we asked them to do it."
Me: "Why would you do that?"
Customer: "Because that what we all do on this block."
Me: "Okay, just so you know, that is really bad for the tree, and it looks like that."

Maybe they are modern/ abstract art lovers.
http://hamilton.cps.k12.il.us/dubuffet04.jpg
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

I live in Petersburg and I have seen the horrible hack job by Havana, we literally have to beg people around here not to top trees, half the time after we tell them how bad it is for the tree the just go ahead and have another service go ahead and butcher it.
 
Re: Why the F*%$ isn\'t Topping illegal?

No doubt this will always happen, but consider carrying the ISA's brochure "Why topping hurts trees". I find offering third-party evidence of what I'm saying, in writing, can persuade people who otherwise just think I'm a know-it-all with an ax to grind. Especially since so many people now view the ISA as the de facto experts on tree care. Stick on a label with your name and contacts so they remember who to thank when they schedule the work.

It's no sure thing, but it doesn't cost much. Worth a try.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Back
Top Bottom