When is it time to pack it in and work at Wal-Mart?

TheArborMan · Oct 8, 2017

Pelorus said:
Incrementally losing that loving feeling. (towards trees and humans)
Age, mileage/wear and tear on the ole bod. Vehicles and equipment conspiring to mutiny.
Paperwork. Weather. Bills.
Feeling like the bear is gonna get me not vice versa. It's slowly killing me. Definitely not making me stronger.

Anyone got any thoughts on realistic exit strategies? I thought stump grinding might be an answer, but that experience was more like watching grass grow, interspersed with rare moments of terror or despair.

edit. My marriage also has similar episodes of terror and despair. Perhaps there is a nexus

Here is something to think about that has really got me wanting to get out.

I went to visit one of the bigger guys in my area about 3 years ago. He has a very well established tree service, removals and pruning + plant health care. I would estimate around 25 employees, in business for over 30 years. I was there to give him some advice on milling, he was considering buying a sawmill. I spent about an hour with him. It was the only time I have ever talked to him. My first observation as we walked around his shop, he had a big limp when he walked, seemed natural like he had been dealing with it for a long time or a bad injury had occurred. At some point during our conversation he said "I tell my wife I'm going to sell it all and get out every year". There was also the usual bitching about industry issues, hard to find good employees, safety, etc...

I have been in business around 10 years. Around 5 years I occasionally started telling myself I was going to sell everything and get out. The last 2 years about once a week I try to talk myself into getting out. Why? When I started I had nothing to lose. I had a small amount of savings, a truck and a dump trailer, no wife, no kids. 10 years later I'm fortunate and proud of what I have and have built. A wife and daughter, 2 businesses, lots of equipment, 10 employees. Now I have everything to lose. Personal serious injury that prevents me from working and both business are sunk. Fire at our shop, fuck*d. Employee gets in a bad accident driving or on the job fuck*d. My wife work with me and it has strained our marriage at times.

So if this guy who you would think is near the top of our industry is still thinking of getting out every year after 30+ years am I dumb for continuing on? I try to tell myself if I get out now I won. No injuries to myself or employees other then bumps, scrapes and hand saw cuts. No major accidents to property, vehicles or equipment. The payout for selling the equipment alone is more then I would know what to do with. Why continue???? I like to work on trees, I don't know where else I would fit in... I think I am addicted to the job, the stress and nature of the the business.

I do know that I definitely don't know the answer to your questions! :birra:

Nish · Oct 8, 2017

Now let's hear from all the tree guys now dividing their time between the cabin and the yacht, occasionally dropping by the home office to chat with the adorable secretaries and pick up another suitcase of cash.

Pelorus · Oct 8, 2017

I've never wanted to acquire or "manage" employees. (like an ant tending aphids, or a dairy farmer...who is really working for whom?)
I just wanted to climb trees + keep the bills paid. The company continues to neither grow or die. It just exists like a dormant virus.
A friend told me a joke about an employee who is admiring his boss's Lamborghini. "Wow boss, is that ever nice"
The boss tells him "if you continue to be really conscientious, and work really hard"............... (pause)............................................
"I'll be able to buy another one next year".

Nish · Oct 8, 2017

Pelorus said:
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde?
Guy has never yet saved a tree that I didn't want to kill!

Nothing better than a well-rounded education.

brydan · Oct 8, 2017

Tom Dunlap said:
If you're going to cash it all in
And work at a big box get into Costco. They pay livable wages and have benefits

Through a long and very unexpected route I've found myself currently working at Costco while piecing my life back together. Starting pay isn't great compared to what I did as a business owner but the health benefits are fantastic and jump up a couple levels and the pay increases quickly. It's crazy what the GM of a store makes. It's also worth something to punch the clock and not give work another thought till the next punch in and being inside out of the weather.

jefftheswede · Oct 8, 2017

Pelorus said:
I've never wanted to acquire or "manage" employees. (like an ant tending aphids, or a dairy farmer...who is really working for whom?)
I just wanted to climb trees + keep the bills paid. The company continues to neither grow or die. It just exists like a dormant virus.
A friend told me a joke about an employee who is admiring his boss's Lamborghini. "Wow boss, is that ever nice"
The boss tells him "if you continue to be really conscientious, and work really hard"............... (pause)............................................
"I'll be able to buy another one next year".

I heard it said,"no risk,no reward",
Really tho, you sound like me 17 years ago, all I wanted to do is climb, started in 1978, then came 2001,
I was 40 years old then, climbing all over so-cal, then came a wife and kids and aging, falling asleep with no dinner and my boots still on and waking up at 4am.,then get back at it, takes it's toll.
My lifestyle and what I wanted changed, I never wanted to work for a big company, but I found a start up company and took the job as Operations Manager.
I was hesitant for the same reasons you have about managing people or acquiring anything but my personal needs. I liked being loner, just a couple friends, so I knew that being in the roll of 'Operations Manager" my life at work would change dramatically, and it did.
It was a decision I never thought I would make.
There was a transition period and now I am a happy guy, I just hung in there.
So I have been Operations Manager of probably the best tree company in southern california since then,
I have found a new zeal and ambitious attitude that I did not know existed, young guys wanting to climb and learn, over-seeing daily operations and running 4 productive crews,
I actually work about 60 hours a week, but I make my own hours,
What I am saying is that you can write your own ticket with your own conditions, the opportunities are out there, that is what I did,
Jeff :birra:

jefftheswede · Oct 8, 2017

brydan said:
Through a long and very unexpected route I've found myself currently working at Costco while piecing my life back together. Starting pay isn't great compared to what I did as a business owner but the health benefits are fantastic and jump up a couple levels and the pay increases quickly. It's crazy what the GM of a store makes. It's also worth something to punch the clock and not give work another thought till the next punch in and being inside out of the weather.

Such a sad thing,,
Jeff

RajElectric · Oct 9, 2017

Open a mobile rub and tug. You're welcome.

Limb It · Oct 9, 2017

RajElectric said:
Open a mobile rub and tug. You're welcome.

Is there a discount for fellow buzzers?

Sent from my LG-H812 using Tapatalk

brydan · Oct 9, 2017

jefftheswede said:
Such a sad thing,,
Jeff

Nah, the experience has been a blessing. Climb trees for fun these days, out of a bad marriage, active in church, and a stronger relationship with my girls than I've ever had. It was humbling to be a Mechanical Engineer working retail but in this part of the country with the oil field downturn, there's a lot of folks doing jobs they're not accustomed to.

ROYCE · Oct 9, 2017

TheArborMan said:
Here is something to think about that has really got me wanting to get out.

I went to visit one of the bigger guys in my area about 3 years ago. He has a very well established tree service, removals and pruning + plant health care. I would estimate around 25 employees, in business for over 30 years. I was there to give him some advice on milling, he was considering buying a sawmill. I spent about an hour with him. It was the only time I have ever talked to him. My first observation as we walked around his shop, he had a big limp when he walked, seemed natural like he had been dealing with it for a long time or a bad injury had occurred. At some point during our conversation he said "I tell my wife I'm going to sell it all and get out every year". There was also the usual bitching about industry issues, hard to find good employees, safety, etc...

I have been in business around 10 years. Around 5 years I occasionally started telling myself I was going to sell everything and get out. The last 2 years about once a week I try to talk myself into getting out. Why? When I started I had nothing to lose. I had a small amount of savings, a truck and a dump trailer, no wife, no kids. 10 years later I'm fortunate and proud of what I have and have built. A wife and daughter, 2 businesses, lots of equipment, 10 employees. Now I have everything to lose. Personal serious injury that prevents me from working and both business are sunk. Fire at our shop, fuck*d. Employee gets in a bad accident driving or on the job fuck*d. My wife work with me and it has strained our marriage at times.

So if this guy who you would think is near the top of our industry is still thinking of getting out every year after 30+ years am I dumb for continuing on? I try to tell myself if I get out now I won. No injuries to myself or employees other then bumps, scrapes and hand saw cuts. No major accidents to property, vehicles or equipment. The payout for selling the equipment alone is more then I would know what to do with. Why continue???? I like to work on trees, I don't know where else I would fit in... I think I am addicted to the job, the stress and nature of the the business.

I do know that I definitely don't know the answer to your questions!

I disagree in your examples of why you should get out. If your going to loose it all because of an accident, or personal injury then you have not structured your business properly. Many companies survive accidents all the time and are still running their business. I would train your crew, safety meetings, hire good employees, have a culture of safety, and instill your core values in all employees ( I am sure you already do this...your running a good company) All your personal assents should be in a trust. Keep the business and the personal money very separate.
The longer you stay in this business then the better you should be doing. I'm not saying this is you case....buy many companies do not charge enough money to operate their business with the end in mind. Making 500K+ a year is great...but how much of that did you take home? Then how much of that went into your retirement? I see it around me all the time. My competition buys a nice sports car and then a boat. How thats going to be in 15 years? Those are depreciating assets. I put 40K a year into my retirement. So every year my business in around is that much closer I get to a nice retirement. Sure, I could spend that money on a boat....but that boat is not going to help me when I want to get out of the tree game. That retirement savings is a MUST and comes out FIRST! Then whats left over is what I can use to buy that boat, or car, or vacation home!!
I have met those business owners who have managed the money for the business and their personal life perfectly. They have the funds to retire..some don't need the money from the sale of the business to retire....thats just an added bonus. They are not counting on it.
My point is...you have to charge the appropriate amount for the work your doing and that includes having money tucked away for your retirement and an emergency fund for the business. Things should be getting easier and not harder the longer your in business. Don't be scared you need to get out before you loose it all. You need to change that mindset to your going to the end with this business and are going to be a multimillionaire (or whatever your dreams are)

I went and bought my bucket truck from another company in up-state VT this last year. AMAZING company that had the best of all the equipment, 4 tree crews, 2 new 75 foot bucket trucks and 2 cranes. Now, they have been in business for over 50 years. I mentioned how it must be nice to just go into the bank and get the funding you need to buy the nicest equipment. The owner looked at me and said "No, we replace these cranes every 5 years....and we don't get a loan to do it" They are able to save and pay the whole amount plus trade in for the new equipment. This owner was just back from a month long trip hunting in Colorado. He was living the life from years of setting the business up to run itself....and it does. "Begin with the end in mind" Make the moves now to be prepared for 30 years from now. Just my 2 cents.

guymayor · Oct 9, 2017

Nish said:
Nothing better than a well-rounded education.

Not sure; many companies gear up for removals and then push removals to make quick cash to pay the payments for the gear and roundandround we go.
Plus the preservation work takes climbing skill and patience, and tolerating some liability.

ROYCE · Oct 9, 2017

guymayor said:
Not sure; many companies gear up for removals and then push removals to make quick cash to pay the payments for the gear and roundandround we go.
Plus the preservation work takes climbing skill and patience, and tolerating some liability.

But the winning combination is having the equipment to do the removals and skills to do the preservation work....and the knowledge to know the difference.

Merle Nelson · Oct 9, 2017

ROYCE said:
I disagree in your examples of why you should get out. If your going to loose it all because of an accident, or personal injury then you have not structured your business properly. Many companies survive accidents all the time and are still running their business. I would train your crew, safety meetings, hire good employees, have a culture of safety, and instill your core values in all employees ( I am sure you already do this...your running a good company) All your personal assents should be in a trust. Keep the business and the personal money very separate.
The longer you stay in this business then the better you should be doing. I'm not saying this is you case....buy many companies do not charge enough money to operate their business with the end in mind. Making 500K+ a year is great...but how much of that did you take home? Then how much of that went into your retirement? I see it around me all the time. My competition buys a nice sports car and then a boat. How thats going to be in 15 years? Those are depreciating assets. I put 40K a year into my retirement. So every year my business in around is that much closer I get to a nice retirement. Sure, I could spend that money on a boat....but that boat is not going to help me when I want to get out of the tree game. That retirement savings is a MUST and comes out FIRST! Then whats left over is what I can use to buy that boat, or car, or vacation home!!
I have met those business owners who have managed the money for the business and their personal life perfectly. They have the funds to retire..some don't need the money from the sale of the business to retire....thats just an added bonus. They are not counting on it.
My point is...you have to charge the appropriate amount for the work your doing and that includes having money tucked away for your retirement and an emergency fund for the business. Things should be getting easier and not harder the longer your in business. Don't be scared you need to get out before you loose it all. You need to change that mindset to your going to the end with this business and are going to be a multimillionaire (or whatever your dreams are)

I went and bought my bucket truck from another company in up-state VT this last year. AMAZING company that had the best of all the equipment, 4 tree crews, 2 new 75 foot bucket trucks and 2 cranes. Now, they have been in business for over 50 years. I mentioned how it must be nice to just go into the bank and get the funding you need to buy the nicest equipment. The owner looked at me and said "No, we replace these cranes every 5 years....and we don't get a loan to do it" They are able to save and pay the whole amount plus trade in for the new equipment. This owner was just back from a month long trip hunting in Colorado. He was living the life from years of setting the business up to run itself....and it does. "Begin with the end in mind" Make the moves now to be prepared for 30 years from now. Just my 2 cents.

Great post Royce. You frequently take the time to make long AND valuable posts. This is a concept that is one of the more important to business owners. Keep posting the same or similar things. By the end of your career not only will you have done great by you and yours but, you will have changed the future for many other families as well.