When employees break things

MTCInc

MTCInc

Location
Bay Area, California
Ok, so I believe I am a very fair with my guys who work with me.

I just hired on a new full time guy that is pretty green in September. I am paying him on the top end of his pay scale, and he has about 2 years or so tree work experience. I supplied him at the start with a brand new petzel saddle, gear bag, new rope, hitch, laynard and a zubat pole saw for his own personal (stay on the truck) gear. I told him that I would replace the rope as needed, within reason, give new blades within reason and supply all the other gear needed. The only thing I have asked for him to supply is his own handsaw/pruners. I am not going to replace someones blade every few weeks because they cannot take care of it properly...

On to the question: I have seen this one person in particular be somewhat risky when letting limbs fall out of trees. I tend to be much more cautious. Well, a few weeks ago he dropped a limb without looking and sent it through a window. Total operator error here, a mistake that was 100% avoidable. I ended up paying $300 to get the window fixed, and did not make him accountable at all, other then a slap on the wrist.

What do you guys do in a situation like this?

Then, later this week he dropped his (mine, his to use) zubat pole saw out of a tree (came way to close to the window) and broke the brand new blade I put on only a few days ago. How do you deal with these incidents? Do you just keep replacing, or do you make them accountable?

I do not want to be overly stingy with gear, but I also do not want to have him think I will just replace things as he breaks them.
 
You said it yourself... you let him off with nothing wore than a slap on the wrist. That's YOUR issue.

I'd have suspended him for three days. (I'd really like to have taken the $ out of his pay, but you can't do that here.)
 
I know, I am too nice. I need to get over that part and be a bit tougher on them. But, I do not think 3 day suspension is the right message to send. Isn't that a bit over the top? To boot, that would also put a bind on me.

Thanks for the reply
 
Is three days too stiff?

He negligently broke a window for $300. He damaged your reputation, too. What if he broke a window and someone was on the other side?

Maybe you need to toughen up not just on him, but on overall expectations, explaining that you know that production will decrease, but it is within your business strategy and pricing to offer dependable, no damage service. Maybe put up a "Wall of Shame" as some call it, or a "Wall of Education", putting a price tag for the expense of the replacement window/ tool along with the other expenses that don't go as easily noticed...

Zubat blade $30, time without polesaw and reduced production, time to order replacement, shipping costs, expense for someone to replace blade, etc

Don't shame the guy, but explain your expectations, what he IS going to do differently if he wants to work for you, how important reputation is for future jobs, etc.

All too often, people only see the replacement cost of the damaged item, but not the less tangibles.

Disciplinary warning with documentation at least. Give him a shi$#y pole saw replacement. Home Depot has then for $40. When he shows proper respect for your property, then give him back the good tools. Will you lose a little on the lowered production up front, yes, will it set a good precedent for the crew, maybe.

Try to make the "lemonade" from the "lemons".
 
I don't think it's over the top at all. That kind of behavior has the potential to get someone killed. Period.
 
Grounding is good. Climbers are always proud of their abilities and if he is grounded for a while from trees or particular tools so that he can see how it's done properly, it will be embarrassing for him.

Also you have to make the employee aware of the cost of their error. Compare it to things like the total cost of the job, the cost of employing him that day, the cost of running the plant etc. It is easy for employees to think that employers have tonnes of money rolling in and are not always quite so aware of the costs that go with that.

BTW I am an employee and I to break things occasionally. I really do hate it when it happens but despite my best intentions crap sometimes happens.
 
[ QUOTE ]
(I'd really like to have taken the $ out of his pay, but you can't do that here.)

[/ QUOTE ]

Why not?

I've heard an idea before where the employees all pay into a small savings fund. Something like $10 bucks a week. If they break something, it comes out of that fund. At the end of the year they recieve what they paid in,(maybe match 50% of it). Or maybe they use it for equipment replacement.
 
Because it's illegal in Massachusetts to do so.

The $10 slush fund sounds cool enough; don't know if it'd fly here.
 
I am willing to be that employees cannot be required to pay into any sort of fund.

These sort of things are funded from the other direction though. The company puts in money that gets spent making repairs. The money left is split between people. Doing this equitably is a huge challenge though.

the most effective attention getter I ever used was demotion like EdenT said. Give the #2 climber a chance to have the #1 spot. Good for them and it will give your guy time to think.

any sort of discipline/consequence needs to be thought out, applied consistently and documented. If not, the whole thing can be viewed as being arbitrary.
 
Suspending him is a dumb idea
If i were an employee and I got suspended for busting a window. I would simply find another boss to find me work for those three days. Be as easy as a couple phone calls. Dont believe for a minute I would be sitting on my butt at home thinking about it. Please, get real. I wouldnt think twice about it either. Suspend me, treat me like an eighth grader, I might not come back either.

speaking of damage,
maybe i should suspend myself for that window I broke, or that fence I dinged, or that gutter I ripped off, or that divot I put in the ground, or that brand new rope I slashed or the sideview mirror I ripped off my truck, or the MS200 that i dropped one time...

Want to talk about pissing off a boss! once I backed a truck up into a ditch, took an hour to get it out, when we went back the next day, I backed the same truck into the same ditch! Im sure those guys at that company still laugh about my summer there 13 years ago.

In another learning incident, three years into climbing, I dropped a lead, dead center, onto a garage. My boss still paid me for my time. (he was on the pull line and could and did take some of the blame.)

Really though, if your climber has any pride, im sure he is embarrased about his performance and is kicking himself for being careless. Its a crappy feeling to cause damage regardless of if you have to pay for it. It reflects on you.

I know for me, im pretty vain about my climbing and when I do something stupid, its a big punishment to feel like a jackass. No one has to yell at me or try to hurt me financially for me to get the picture.

If he is the type that doesnt give a crap than you should fire him now. Punishing him financially or publicly embarrasing him isn't doing anyone any good. He should be worried about his own reputation and work on improving. If he doesnt, than he is a rotten egg and you cant try to rehabilitate him. Causing less damage comes with experience, Better work positiong, less fatigue, slowing down.

All of my damage has resulted from my feeling pressured to move fast. If your getting a lot of damage than probably the best thing to do would be to start stressing to your crew to slow the F down. Time is not as important as your reputations. He may THINK you want him to be moving fast and is trying to rush the tree trying to impress you. In fact I am sure of it, because I have done exactly that. I used to think speed was impressive.
he is ponly a second year climber, hw e-
He probaly has the stupid "time is money" mantra that is our culture running through his head. This mantra is counter productive for all parties involved, especially if he is an hourly employee.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Really though, if your climber has any pride, im sure he is embarrased about his performance and is kicking himself for being careless. Its a crappy feeling to cause damage regardless of if you have to pay for it. It reflects on you.


[/ QUOTE ]

That's it.
 
Did you hire an adult or adopt a child? You're the leader of the team not the parent of the brood. Treebing is right, unless you can truly stand there and say you've never broken anything then it's all learning. Does it cost the company? Sure, but not nearly as much as disgruntled employees and high turnover. When something goes wrong then debrief. Have the team discuss the situation and what happened, how it could've been done differently and what was learned for the future. Doing this will lead to mature, professional behaviour and better morale.

I always appreciated that approach from my boss instead of the slap, either on the wrist or the wallet. Use a standard disciplinary process, verbal correction x2, written correction x2, final written warning of dismissal if behaviour isn't corrected. This way you have a clear manner of addressing any behaviour that is a problem.
 
Human nature is what it is: imperfect, with some more than others.

It seems that breakage comes with learning. It also depends on the breakage. With the window incident we would have had a meeting with him, asked how he thinks it could have been avoided, meet with the groundies to check/varify the story, maybe "officially" retrain or go over what he should do, do an evaluation a week or so later, and then kept the documentation on file. Something bigger, and if it included or possibly could have included injuries, could be more serious consequences.

If there atarts to be a pattern then additional measures will kick in, possibly his paying for all/portion of it (can do in CA), suspention, or adios.

This is why it is extremely important to document training, evaluations, incidents, discipline, and everything else related. If there is a pattern developing you need to see and prove it. If it's not dealt with it then becomes management neglegence. And if they do something major, and OSHA or a lawyer finds out about their "reputation," get ready to open your wallet.

If this is a not a usual thing you will have documentation to show that as well ("Last time he did that was XX yrs. ago. See, here's his file...). A few variables, but they can be dealt with fairly.
 
Kevin made some great points. Nice post Kevin.

As and employer, I simply document the broken stuff. Why? Maybe, just to be thorough, dunno?

But, I simply suck it up and take care of the repair. I've been relatively fortunate though. I've never had something really significant happen. (Knock on wood).
 
If he wants to go work for someone else for three days, that's his prerogative. If he wants to stay gone, he doesn't fully understand the gravity of the situation, and I wouldn't want him back anyways.

Actually, noo.. I've never broken anything.

Accidents happen, but they're preventable. If the climber exercised prudence and crap happenned anyways... no biggie. If he was being stupid, then that's a matter to be dealt with.

My opinion, take it or leave it.
 
[ QUOTE ]

All of my damage has resulted from my feeling pressured to move fast. If your getting a lot of damage than probably the best thing to do would be to start stressing to your crew to slow the F down. Time is not as important as your reputations. He may THINK you want him to be moving fast and is trying to rush the tree trying to impress you. In fact I am sure of it, because I have done exactly that. I used to think speed was impressive.


[/ QUOTE ]

I think Treebing has hit upon a very important truth. The only serious accident I have had was as a result of getting to a job late(r than the boss), and then trying to catch up. When you start taking shortcuts, you start taking risks. If someone is not performing at their best there is probably a reason for it. Probably better to get them out of the tree for their own safety until the issue is resolved. If they are always like that either adapt if they are worth the effort or let them go.
 
[ QUOTE ]
, he doesn't fully understand the gravity of the situation,

[/ QUOTE ]

ha ha, was that pun intended? Gravity really does have everything to do with this particular situation.

I am very impressed that you have never broken anything. I might have a different apraoch toward my employees if I personally had a perfect record. Seeing as I have broken things, I would feel like a hypocrite.

regardless, I would still would be pissed as hell if I got suspended for three days for a busted window. Although I would be glad for some time to catch up on those side jobs.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

New threads New posts

Kask Stihl NORTHEASTERN Arborists Wesspur TreeStuff.com Teufelberger Westminster X-Rigging Teufelberger
Back
Top Bottom