What's This? - Spruce Deformation

Frax

Frax

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Expat now in Chapel Hill, NC by way of Calgary, Al
What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

Anyone have any ideas on this attached image? It's a question - not a quiz!
I had always believed this was classic herbicide damage but I received an anonymous opinion on an image I posted a long time back on my blog that this is caused by an obscure Eriophyid mite.
Eriophyid mites that I am familar with are gall formers, but there are others that don't make galls apparently.
No other info given and no idea where in the world the message came from.
You guys range far and wide, so I'm hoping one of you might be able to add something.
 

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Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

It could be. Usually with eriophyid mite (Trisetacus), there's associated chlorosis with the distorted leaf growth.
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

I've noticed that damage many times but haven't confirmed a diagnosis. Eriophyid mites may do that but most are gall formers which would make it difficult to explain the needle twisting. I'm still unsure.

I assume that you ruled out herbicide damage?

There is also some lepidoptera damage on your picture no?
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

I had (until the anonymous tip) no reason to think it was NOT herbicide damage. I was just given the cut sample. The specimen was dry and crispy when I scanned it on my flat bed scanner. I may have damaged it. Did not notice lepidoptera damage but I wasn't looking for it either. Gotta put my specs on more often when I look at bug stuff. Spruce sawfy is common here though, as a defoliator.

I have posted my image to entomologists in this Province and if it is a bug, it may be a new one or one that has not really come up for scrutiny before. Every year there are new critters and tree diseases here. Changing climate? More eyes on the trees? I don't know. But our bug taxa might not be as widely known outside the entomological community as it is on the eastern side of the continent.

That's a lot of big words for me. Time for a beer...
beer.gif
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

Pretty tough to diagnose if you only have the one branch. I can't think of why this seems so familiar to me but it does.

Was the whole tree like that? One side?

Looks like black headed budworm (not sure latin) damage at top centre of the image. They start small at the bud and twist inwards along the shoot leaving a trail until they get into later instars where they devour more. Not a problem here but certainly noticeable.
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

Well its a puzzler - if it's not herbicide damage after all. Interesting that this kind of twisty thing would be found in the boreal. Suggests something other than herbicide, but may not rule out upwind pollutant or water table pollution drift. Speculation.
I don't think we have either of the black-headed budworms here but I can check. Spruce budworm is uncommon too. Were you thinking that the distortion as well as needle loss might be caused by lepidoptera feeding? I've never seen that before but truthfully I've never really looked for leps doing that on conifers.
We definitely have teh white pine weevil and it's very common but this was not on the terminal leader for sure. We spend enough time removing damaged leaders at acreages (boring job)!
Wish I could remember what my colleague who brought it in told me about the tree as a whole. I think it was just one side low down but I might be remembering wrong. Probably won't find out the definite answer about this case. I will have to really peel these branches apart more in future to check for critters or their sign. And through a microscope. I do have one. In fact I have two. No excuses!
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

I'm certainly not saying the budworm caused the twisty damage, just one larva feeding on one part of the sample. Not related to the damage in question at all. Just a point of interest.

I'll do a bit of research and see what i can find if anything.
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

Didn't really suppose you meant that, but just checking. Every time I think I know what's going on and what's likely I get another 'aha' moment.
Even though its unrelated to the main issue here, I'll have to find out what spruce defoliators we have besides yellow-headed spruce sawfly. It's the only one I'm familiar with and have seen here.

I still think herbicide damage is a very likely cause in the absence of other info. Just following up on the mite suggestion that I had never considered because I never knew about it.
And all the ideas from here have given me more things to think about next time I see a similar problem. The take home lesson for me is to look as closely as possible and not jump to conclusions because it may be something new, and not the usual thing.
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

Some heavy aphid infestations can cause twisty deformation like that. You should be able to see them with your naked little eye if they are present...
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

My first guess is the same as most, herbicide damg.
Can't see any sign of insects feeding, swelling. egg laying etc. Mites might see speckles.
No fungal fruiting bodies, spores etc.
Can you peel it open might find a twig borer.

Final answer is Moose fart. smells like licorice, just trust me on this one.
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

Took another look. I recall Swiss Needle Cast does this early on in its infection.
Haven,t seen it for awhile. Christmas tree farm disease and specimen Douglas Fir.
I had it sent to the Lab. Pest Diagnostic clinic in Guelph is pretty good m/b they can bounce around the photo thr before you start chasin a wild goose.
Best of Luck.
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

No firs here on the Great High and Dry. We have spruce, pine, spruce, spruce and there`s one more I can`t think of. Oh yeah, spruce.


I`m likin`moose fart now. Never considered that one.
The actual specimen is long gone. If I see another that might not necessarily be herbicide damage I`ll spend some quality time with it to suss it out.
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

Spruce, spruce, Pine and Spruce.
spam spam spam suasage and spam
Thanks for for gettin me there much appreciated!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anwy2MPT5RE
[ QUOTE ]
No firs here on the Great High and Dry. We have spruce, pine, spruce, spruce and there`s one more I can`t think of. Oh yeah, spruce.


I`m likin`moose fart now. Never considered that one.
The actual specimen is long gone. If I see another that might not necessarily be herbicide damage I`ll spend some quality time with it to suss it out.

[/ QUOTE ]
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

Oh, I think you need to look more closely my friend. I have seen many fir in Calgary. Take a walk through Edworthy park sometime, there lies the most easterly grove of Doug-fir in Canada. Or maybe its Bowness park...anyways they're along the Bow east of downtown!

In fact, at the intersection of Elbow drive and Sifton Blvd, to the east of the intersection there are a number of larger (for Calgary ;)) trees. One of them is a Doug-Fir. Its about 65' tall, and its top is very different than the surrounding spruce. The bark is also much different.

Rocky mountain douglas-fir (Pseudotsuga menziesii subsp. glauca) is an important timber tree on the eastern slopes of the rockies, and if one has a keen eye, many can be seen on the foothills as one approaches those great cathedrals of rock.
 
Re: What\'s This? - Spruce Deformation

Very true Dylan! I was meaning Abies, but you are very right in that Calgary has the most easterly native stands of Douglas-fir (Pseudotsuga menzesii)along the river and there are some exmaples in gardens too. Come across them a couple of times a year. Never climbed one yet.
And to be fully honest, I know of two tree-size Abies. They are in the newest edition of Alberta trees of renown.
You Easterners would laugh at our "trees of renown". They are pretty small and ordinary by your standards but it's always refreshing to come across something that isn't a spruce or a Shubert choke cherry!
 
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