what kind of all thread

[ATH]

....

"Your customers deserve to hire a professional that knows the proper ways to do the work they’re paying for, and not someone who thinks he knows enough to get by."
Here, is implied that the work I do is not as a professional would have it done. And, the customers are getting jypped.
When yes, the cables I used should be stronger. Though could not a through cable you put in a tree fail because the it's not allowed to have the ability to hinge on an eye to eye, or rot occurs from the tree not sealing well enough around a cable's innate open design? Or simply trees that have being cable simply need to be reassessed at a later point?

CODIT is best case scenario, for dead wood to take care of itself. It seems, it's wishful thinking to have the idea that one of the reasons for health decline in trees is, not from accumulative dead branches/stubs in trees and tears that hold more water than if they were properly cut.
When a tree has suckers at or near the bottom of a tree and the has already been significant dead branches especially branches that are facing upwards that will not likely break off in the wind, not to go up there and properly cut the dead wood, would allow the tree to go into rapid decline, to a point of unrecoverable.
Properly cutting dead wood out of the very top of a tree is debatably the most important area to cut dead detrimental out of a tree. Because if the top of a tree dies rapid decline is much more likely than if there is a wound on the main stem. Yes, lower big branches are very important, but they're easier to access.

We know there are other reasons for rapid decline in trees, unrelated to dead wood, although helping the tree by cutting detrimental dead wood, may be just enough to help the immune system(/over use of nutrients from trying to seal over dead branches and stubs), to fight/heal the other aliments the tree is dealing with.

A) who needs to imply it when you say it outright.

B) different cable systems have been discussed here many times...

C) if there is deadwood in the very top of the tree, that is almost always a sign of decline. I'm not saying the wood should not come out, but you are not improving tree health just by cutting that. Deadwood removal is more of a safety practice than a tree health practice. If a customer isn't willing to pay for that, are you still cutting it???

D) taking deadwood out of the very top is often the LEAST important place to remove it. Those are usually very small twigs and branches that will do little damage when the fall. Once you get material that is 2-3" and bigger in diameter, that can do some real damage.

 

[Willber]

The ⅔ rule isn’t applied to the height of the tree

Oh, I thought that was the very purpose of the 2/3 rule.

The bottom of the measurement is the point in the tree that you’re supporting

I don't understand what is stated here. The lowest point of where the tree is separating?

In its simplest application it is where the first two branches form at the top of a single trunk.

Ok, but isn't the idea to make the hole not too close to branch formation?

There is art and science involved if the tree has included bark or some defect at the first branching.

Yes, and best where to put the holes, from individual tree analysis. All trees have variables and differ uniquely.

 

[Willber]

A) who needs to imply it when you say it outright.

Wow. I said yes, I should use stronger cables.

B) different cable systems have been discussed here many times...

And, I never debated not using the cables discussed here.

C) if there is deadwood in the very top of the tree, that is almost always a sign of decline. I'm not saying the wood should not come out, but you are not improving tree health just by cutting that. Deadwood removal is more of a safety practice than a tree health practice. If a customer isn't willing to pay for that, are you still cutting it???

Yes, it is a sign of decline. I understand that where a cut is made the tree will be stimulated to invest in cell regrowth in that area. So, wouldn't that help it heal faster and reduce decline in that it's not investing extra in healing over something dead, and less fight of rot. Only suckers and non ideal growth of certain branches cause common tree decline?

D) taking deadwood out of the very top is often the LEAST important place to remove it. Those are usually very small twigs and branches that will do little damage when the fall. Once you get material that is 2-3" and bigger in diameter, that can do some real damage.

Well, from what I've indicated, I'm not cutting very small twigs.

 

[Mesquite]

Im not trying to tell you what to do willbur, the ansi pdf i posted earlier in the thread. Explains the 2/3rd rule with a diagram plus a bunch of other topics that have been discussed. A read through is exactly what i needed.

 

[ATH]

...
And, I never debated not using the cables discussed here.t

That was in reply to the questiona about damage caused by through cables. Yeah that is possible, but how consequential Thai is is questionable. Search the Buzz for that discussion. Sorry, should have clarified.

Yes, it is a sign of decline. I understand that where a cut is made the tree will be stimulated to invest in cell regrowth in that area. So, wouldn't that help it heal faster and reduce decline in that it's not investing extra in healing over something dead, and less fight of rot. Only suckers and non ideal growth of certain branches cause common tree decline?

Well, from what I've indicated, I'm not cutting very small twigs.

If you are just cutting deadwood and not into live tissue, the tree has no way of knowing whether the branch was removed or not.. yes, compartmentalizing will happen more quickly...but if you are cutting big branches on low vigor trees they won't ever close those wounds.

 

[Willber]

Im not trying to tell you what to do willbur, the ansi pdf i posted earlier in the thread. Explains the 2/3rd rule with a diagram plus a bunch of other topics that have been discussed. A read through is exactly what i needed.

I want to learn, and try not to be arrogant. I don’t mind being told what another knows. I just don’t like lazy people.

 

[Reach]

I want to learn, and try not to be arrogant. I don’t mind being told what another knows. I just don’t like lazy people.

Please do not accuse me of laziness. We have never met, nor do you know what I do or how much I do. I can assure you, I am not lazy in the least.

You do not come across here as one who wants to be humble and learn. You come across as one who knows all the answers and is looking for affirmation that you are correct. Yes, you have conceded that your cable is not the right size. However, you have and continue to argue about many other things, some of which are clearly outlined as accepted industry standard practices.

 

[Willber]

Please do not accuse me of laziness. We have never met, nor do you know what I do or how much I do. I can assure you, I am not lazy in the least.

You do not come across here as one who wants to be humble and learn. You come across as one who knows all the answers and is looking for affirmation that you are correct. Yes, you have conceded that your cable is not the right size. However, you have and continue to argue about many other things, some of which are clearly outlined as accepted industry standard practices.

Wow, I don't know why you thought I was accusing you of being lazy. All I said was I don't like lazy people. Debating with someone shouldn't be mistaken for contempt.

I was just referring some people I've seen who don't exert effort to cut more dead than they do, and don't exert effort to try and remove more dead with each cut, to help stimulate growth, and reduce rot.
Which might be one thing you thought I was arguing about that is against standard practice, which it isn't.

I do want to learn and yes, I may come across as not humble, but that's not my intent to be arrogant.
Oh, me looking for a rope that I have found to be ideal, that's a rock climbing rope, that could be made less stretchy and bigger diameter, is me coming across as knowing all the answers and looking for affirmation that I'm correct.
That I think is where you get your ideas about me being a "know it all".

 

[Tom Dunlap]

Here is the ansi a300 part 3 support systems.

Since the Standard is copyrighted it’s not legit to post and share

 

[cerviarborist]

Oh, I thought that was the very purpose of the 2/3 rule.

I don't understand what is stated here. The lowest point of where the tree is separating?

Ok, but isn't the idea to make the hole not too close to branch formation?

Yes, and best where to put the holes, from individual tree analysis. All trees have variables and differ uniquely.

Perhaps a better way to explain the measurement is that the support cable should be placed approximately 2/3 of the distance between the union being supported, and the top of the tree. This means you may place the lower part of your measurement 2 feet, 10 feet or 40 feet above the ground, depending upon where the union is, that you want to support and keep from failing.

 

[southsoundtree]

Cutting deadwood doesn't stimulate growth, fwiw.

 

[Reach]

Cutting deadwood doesn't stimulate growth, fwiw.

Thank you for saving me from pointing that out.

 

[cerviarborist]

Just like a manicure/pedicure/haircut doesn't augment ones health.

 

[southsoundtree]

@Willber

Why are you wanting other people to take out more of the deadwood?

 

[Willber]

Cutting deadwood doesn't stimulate growth, fwiw.

Ok, are you assuming I'm being careful not to cut enough of the live tree cells to stimulate regrowth?
So, why do long term orchard operators state, properly cutting deadwood out/off of an apple tree increases vitality and fruit yield? Are fruit trees so vastly different than say, an oak tree? Yes, humans are vastly different than trees.

Besides it only seems to make sense that if a tree is investing considerable growth in growing cells out over the base of a dead branch, to try and seal over it, wouldn't the tree be better off sealing that wound quicker, by it being cut, so that, that extra cell growth could be invested in other wounds that have been properly cut?

So, dead branches don't cause any adverse long term affects to trees, the tree will take care of itself and live just as long without intervention? Why have the trees in the Boston Commons out lived many of their regional relatives and appear to have no dead branches or stubs?
I think it's because they are yearly properly pruned of significant deadwood and suckers - common sense maintenance of a tree, so it'll last.

 

[Willber]

@Willber

Why are you wanting other people to take out more of the deadwood?

It's not that I necessarily want them to, it's just it seems to be because they don't really care enough, because it's not "their" tree. And, many simply won't cut extra deadwood because they're not getting paid for it, so it's not worth it to them, because they aren't making top dollar for cutting it.

Many times I use an adjacent tree to remove/prune another tree, so I will prune the deadwood out of that adjacent tree, out of courtesy. I say to the customer it's a "code of ethics among arborists" to prune the deadwood out of a tree they use.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

I say to the customer it's a "code of ethics among arborists" to prune the deadwood out of a tree they use.

Not one that I've read.

There is a VERY long thread in the archives on deadwood pruning. You should pause your commentary in this thread about deadwood pruning and read that whole thread.

There are benefits to deadwooding. Not all of them are measurably beneficial to the health of the tree.

OK..time for you to do your homework.

 

[Willber]

Not one that I've read.

There is a VERY long thread in the archives on deadwood pruning. You should pause your commentary in this thread about deadwood pruning and read that whole thread.

There are benefits to deadwooding. Not all of them are measurably beneficial to the health of the tree.

OK..time for you to do your homework.

You may not have read it, it's just something I say, to give credit to the arborists who treat other's trees as they would their own.
I've started reading some of the posts from the "Dead Wood" thread and see the basic understood benefit of properly cutting deadwood. And, will read further.

 

[Tom Dunlap]

You may not have read it, it's just something I say, to give credit to the arborists who treat other's trees as they would their own.

The spirit of what you say is commendable but how can you sustain it as a business model? You would charge for work on one tree but do work on all the trees on the property? How do you make a living?

 

[Willber]

I sometimes receive a tip. I make ok income from tree work in general, so if it's one or two trees, per tree property, I can afford it.