What did you learn @ TCI EXPO?

I'm looking for feed-back on your experience at TCI EXPO.

Can you list at least three(3) things you learned from the seminars, trade show, or talking with fellow climbers?

Myself:
1. The documenting of hazard trees you see on a potential customers property, whether they called you for that tree or not. (Class: Dr. John Ball)



2. The CPR/First-Aid Train the Trainer class, was very informative.



3. The finger study points out that size matters. (Class: Dr. John Ball)
http://sendtofriend.abcnews.go.com/m/screen?id=6632045&pid=26
 
I didn't have an opportunity to attend the TCI expo. What was the gist of the class you mentioned on documenting hazards on trees for potential customers who didn't call you out for that tree? Any links to info that you can share?
 
I was fairly disappointed with the offerings and especially the first day on the tradeshow floor.

That said, the pre-stress study report opened my eyes to yet again the need and desire to check the math of forces on trees and gave me some insight into useful and meaningful means of quantifying concerns for a given tree.

Second was the key note. Nothing really new there, just put it into terms that made better sense to me. Lots of good application information there.

Third had to be meeting the inventors of a number of the cool tools we've seen introduced here on the Buzz and picking their brains.
 
Best for me were both of Chris Luley's talks--great info tightly packed and deftly delivered. Bought his new phc book but have yet to open it.

Both of Erk Brudi's talks were excellent too. It's inspiring that someone somewhere in the world is assessing trees with such detail they call them "safe".

and yes the tradeshow floor--talked to jameson reps about their new pruner head, met the Wraptor guy Paul who gave me one to try for a few weeks--anyone near me is invited to take a ride sometime. also will have it in clearwater florida thanksgiving weekend.

re notifying about "hazard" trees, not sure to what degree dr. ball said we should be concerned; only in extreme cases imo; my view hasn't changed since attached from 2006:

People may unreasonably expect that all arborists are experienced and knowledgeable enough to be experts in tree risk assessment, even if they are not. Knowledge gained from experience and from books will build your abilities, but that knowledge is a double-edged sword. As professionals we are expected to act reasonably and in the public interest if we see a very high-risk, life-threatening condition. Despite our disclaimers, and even if we were hired for other reasons and they are not part of our assignment, we may still be wrongly considered responsible for nearby trees. In extreme cases, it may be a good idea to document critical conditions with words and pictures, deliver that information to the property owners, and make copies for your files. Once you have lowered your personal and professional liability to a level that is acceptable to you, you are ready to assess tree risk.
 

Attachments

Brudi's two talks are here http://intern.tree-consult.org tcia tcia click on index.html

Prestress in Trees—Brudi

Gravity pushes pith down, force radiates outward.

Metal rings around barrels, curved skateboards, arches of concrete with steel rods inside are examples
Longitudinal prestress-- timber is weak in compression, strong in tension. Roots are hard to break because they have little lignin, but they are very tough.
Stems bend with wind=> tensile stress on one side, compressive on other sides
When slicing logs; the outside curves away in half moon shape, leaves middle straight
Origin in cell walls s1 S2 S3 lignins and polymers are incrusted in secondary wall. Cells shrink when older. Cracks form.
Young cells develop alone so they start out round, then narrow in response to pressure from contact with other cells.
Shows picture of hollow tree—“is it safe”? At 150’ no, 15’ high yes.
We must calculate load; lever arm, etc. Crown stiffness leads to higher wind resistance, shape/geometry is a big factor, live crown ratio, the 3-dimensional plant must be considered.
Material properties of the wood vary with the experience of the fibers—are they prestressed?

*Load-shape-material make the Triangle for engineers to consider before assessing risk*
Contrast this with assessments based on the 2-dimensional stem drilling for t/r; several questions from audience about this challenge to their reliance on stem formulae.

Aberdeen Scotland acer pseudoplatanus.
The crew cut a neighbor’s tree by mistake, the owner asked for 18000 pounds, got 500. Little old lady with kickass boots.
Measuring—sawing method with elastometer 1 with a 1/1000 accuracy
Beltlike forces; transverse stress in reponse to compressive force
Single hole method—drill in to release compressive stress, then transverse stress pushes 20 mm hole to 222 with ovalization
Green wood tests 10 tons

Tilia 2857 psi in sync with published, maple 2800 psi
Modulus of elasticity of green wood= stress/strain; “I don’t want to bother you with this stuff” 3 equations with cosines and pi and delta and iota
Same species exposed to more wind->30% stronger
Bavarian kings tree utterly hollow—is it safe? As shown in previous talks, it is, in his terms. Air thinness at altitude factored in, as is temp. They use 75 mph as load to test for, similar to our category 1 hurricane. figure roughness of terrain—other plants buffer. Calculated wind load transferred to base, safety 400% thick trunk resisted bending moment is cubed
Brazil hollow trees very high prestressing/speed of growth
Sia test method; crown shapes 1-4
Diameter it has/dia it needs = safety cushion
Prestress adds to safety—the difference is Reaction Wood!
Higher growth rate, higher prestress
Calculate strength loss—highest prestress in cambium
Gust reaction factors applied mathematically after test
Ansi standard for engineering—dynamic effects on structures.

Don Blair did a fine job with his Monticello talk—a very hollow tuliptree that had effectively compartmentalized so he noted there was “no question about its structural integrity”.

Robert Wells with Biodiversity and the Tree Care Industry
Son of a minister reads quote
T.S. Eliot “We shall not cease from exploration and at the end of all our exploring will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.

Parents of man who died doing tree work big donors.

Bringing Nature Home how native plants sustain wildlife in our gardens douglas tallamy.
Wild creatures depend on our wildlife preserves to sustain them

**Johnson/Lyon books suited for labs not field!!!

Luley:
Clents ask is the tree healthy—how to quantify health? What is condition good or bad?

Communicate with each other. Document changes over time. Measurement metric?
*Stop mingling biological and structural mechanical health. Tree within a tree; apoplast within symplast

Nice eval report letterhead text left of pictures format white space
SPAD meter $1500 chlorophyll content/greenness quantified “You have to be smarter than the tool to use it”
Shoots elongation is the only tool to use when leaves are off—what about characteristics

Demonstrate to clients that tool will not penetrate soil
Great slides on rcx

“roots killed apparently by phytophthora”

Inonotus dryadeus knife stuck in root “totally rotted”???? no measurement

**??refers to drilling-backfilling as vertical mulching

1/3 structural

You gotta charge for taking risk, the rest of the work is time and materials.

Decay—General Assessment would identify most trees that fail.
Internal Defects need further assessment

Brudi Pulling test updates
Assessing the capacity of structures—service load, dead weight. Material strength and elasticity. Load-bearing capacity—even decaying wood has some** and oscillation.

Vta integrity structure decay attachments cracks defects, root strength, residual walls, wood properties
Windspeed must be factored—swirls around bldgs etc—pressure 2.25x on side.
Blast pipe effect when funneled,
and falls faster when going over bldgs
liontail increases oscillation
you don’t want holes in crown—edge effect
fine twigs key to damping
resonance frequency response

there is no even stress distribution but there is even strain distribution.
Elastometer strain gauge

Inclinometer 5/1000 of a degree

Sunken area in stem positive indicator of decay,from root or heart or…

Tilia in gray area between heaven and hell—did suffer from exposure

Lucombe oak with meripius clients wanted to keep but 7.3 tons of load.
Tree has big safety factor
Brudis advice—if you see changes then retest

Oak in aitrang bay in median planted 1848 high historical value

Root flare presence increases safety exponentially

Growth of tree and fungus coevolved

1642 tree moved autobahn 4 million euros old linden. Leaves browned—salt moving 30m. wrap in plastic? Walls?
Residual wall thickness 6 cm!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Crown eccentricity

If a tree is prone to oscillation, dynamic effects must be incorporated
Strength of green wood varies little in temperate zone
Prestressing fibers increases safety margins
Diameter big factor—
Outer growth enhances safety exponentially
Very important for tree to outgrow its problems—equilibrium can be maintained between rot and growth
Diameter 2x is 8x more stable
t/r = 0.3 only reduces 25%
tipover resistance—400 trees observed close to same curve---.25 degrees is 40 % of tipping load
 
Luley's talks were both informative and I learned more than I'll be able to remember. But the practical things that stand out for me are the knowledge that roots generally decay from the bottom up. Also, the relative differences between vertical mulching vs. radial trenching/soil replacement.

Mark C's floor talk about rigging forces was very good, especially the use of the double whip tackle.

The new wedge-grip cable nut thingy was cool (Preformed Line Products)

Don Blair's talk about the Monticello tree was interesting.

Rescue tape doesn't work on hydraulics, I tried it on a hose and it blew out almost immediately... but the girl in the booth was a sweetie.
 
I can't handle doing shots of patron

the limbwalker boys are no joke, both with climbing and drinking.

Easyphloem is much shorter and less attractive than I was lead to believe.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Mark C's floor talk about rigging forces was very good, especially the use of the double whip tackle.

[/ QUOTE ]

thats old news sorry it took you so long to learn it. Though the poster he gave to Mike is nice, I'll be sending him my poster signed in time.

[ QUOTE ]
can't handle doing shots of patron

the limbwalker boys are no joke, both with climbing and drinking.

Easyphloem is much shorter and less attractive than I was lead to believe.

[/ QUOTE ]

Easy just tell the midget to shut his mouth please. The only thing he can really offer to tree work, if the fact, he is a moron and buys any new gear that comes out. Manny7s love guys like you. Keep the faith tard.
 
no prob it's a redneck thig you know. If my poster is more pretty do I win a prize???? Cuase hell, even bald I'm better looking than you are FT. Hell let me know when you grow up, I'd like to see what you look like when your hight in inches equals more than your waist size.
 
i didnt appreciate how big a part of the expo that the seminars played before hand. this really stood out to me in watching the punters leave the trade floor area. in the uk, guys would be filing out with bags upon bags of gear. i didnt see this at all at the expo, indicating the majority of people were attending to pick up their ceu's etc?

ufortunately i didnt personally attend any of the seminars
 
[ QUOTE ]
I didn't have an opportunity to attend the TCI expo. What was the gist of the class you mentioned on documenting hazards on trees for potential customers who didn't call you out for that tree? Any links to info that you can share?

[/ QUOTE ]

Dr. Ball was talking about some legal matters regarding trees. He stated that "If you are called out to give a calculation (he doesn't like to call them estimates) on a tree, and while walking back to your truck, you notice a hazardous tree (not the one you were called for) on their property, you now own that tree."

So it would be wise to notify the potential customers of the hazard and also document that you did so. This doesn't mean you have to check out the entire property, but if you see a hazard, you are obligated to speak up.

I'm gathering that once you notify the person, you are no longer liable for the tree.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Dr. Ball was talking about some legal matters regarding trees. He stated that "If you are called out to give a calculation (he doesn't like to call them estimates) on a tree, and while walking back to your truck, you notice a hazardous tree (not the one you were called for) on their property, you now own that tree."

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to say, hearing statements like this really piss me off.

When the heads of our industry make statements like that, the negative ramifications are felt by the average joe treeworker. There are many positive repercussions for the upper echelon, money made at lectures, training seminars, insurance writers with E&O. There is some serious money to be made in determining who is responsible for a tree that falls. With the complexities that exist in determining risk that the even the great minds are still debating, how in the world is the average estimator for a tree company going to be able to determine a potential failure before it happens while walking back to his truck.

You often hear qualifiers that this only pertains to extreme trees...who determines that? The courts of law. Where does a judge turn for information? To industry leaders who have stated "the arborist now owns the tree".

When liability and money are the driving forces, trees are going to be the real losers.


Dave
 
[ QUOTE ]
This is what E&O (Errors and Omissions) insurance is for. If you have E&O, you are covered for these 'mistakes.'

-Tom

[/ QUOTE ]but how much you are covered depends on the policy and the mistake. gotta read the fine print and be duly diligent.

or just recommend removing every tree, just to be safe!
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Kidding--that's not blanket protection either.

o and i like john ball's wording--since "estimates" are considered by the client to be fixed, better to call them calculations.
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[ QUOTE ]
I was fairly disappointed with the offerings and especially the first day on the tradeshow floor.

[/ QUOTE ]


That is unfortunate. I thought the hazard tree cutting talks were good. Even if I do say so myself!!
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Tony
 
I learned to not cheap out and spend the money for parking in a garage cause the $5 a day parking cost me a $390 back window.
In the crane operates safty talk was able to see a load chart and learn the basic concepts of what goes into making the load chart.
Last but not least learned that I still will never be over my adddiction for climbing gear and that I need to learn to splice so I can make some of my own creations.
 
I thought the expo was awesome!! I learned a ton.

I learned that with eight years in the industry, I was way behind where I should be this far into the game.

I learned that there will be a need soon for people to climb a lot of windmills being put up in the U.S. This is great because this is happening all over in the midwest.


And lastly the Swing-pong that Petzel had set up gave me great marketing idea. Our shop is located on a well traveled road and people are already stopping by to see what the fuss is all about.
 

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