What can I or we do to get a better file on our chains?

[ATH]

They also don't let you file too high or too low. Keeps the file right where it is supposed to be. Wish they made something like that for square grind chains, but given the angle you file them at, not a possibility.

That really helped me up my freehand game. I used to push down too much. When I saw where the Pferd held the file, it helped me free hand better as well.

 

[Shadowscape]

I see homeowner saws that are way too deep on their filing. They seem to want to be able to use the whole diameter of the file. It should be about 80% of the file diameter with about 20% sticking up over the top of the tooth. Going lower makes for a very thin cutting edge that dulls quickly by folding over.

 

[southsoundtree]

Absolutely. Once you feel it, a dull file feels like it is just skating across the tooth while a good new file you can really feel and hear it taking metal off.

And see

 

[moss]

I hardly ever file on site.
In the workshop, with reading glasses, a vice and decent illumination is the only way I get results.

If you can’t see where the file is meeting the cutter edge you can’t do a good job. I wear my headlamp and readers, works well.

 

[southsoundtree]

Typically if you are making a cut that you can tell is going to be a tad off, such as your second cut on a notch, you can steer your cut so it ends up where you want. Not right angle moves, but slight deviation from where it was headed. With a square grind chain you can't make that adjustment. It goes straight where it was headed and all the twist or turn you want to give it won't make a gnat's eyelash of difference.
On a different area of chain sharpness, starting a bore cut is way easier with a not so sharp chain. But, impractical knowledge for the most part.

Can you pull back them bore in as you slightly tweak the direction?

 

[Christrees]

Nice a lot of great advice.. I’ll try to get more pics up later but doing some maintenance on my ms250 so I’ll probably use that anyway but ok great advice and tips everyone thanks let’s keep it up


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[Shadowscape]

Can you pull back them bore in a you slightly tweak the direction?

If you basically start over with the bore. They are very unforgiving on trying to correct the direction they started at.
I see to many people wanting to use square grind chains, only to find out what a pain it is for them to sharpen, then they quickly return to round file chains. They really aren't that hard to sharpen, but you need good light and a good sense of angles. I run my file at a 45/45/45 degrees on all three axis. It is not the best, but easy for me to do and maintain consistently, and it gives me a pretty good grind that I can live with. And those new to square grind get confused on how the files should be used. Once you play with it a bit it isn't that hard. A bit more time consuming is all. And you need damn good light to see where your corner is.
My suggestion: Do not watch and follow Buckin Billy Bob's backwoods bible bangin bullshit videos on square grind. There is a good Youtube video on square grind put out by some fellow in Norway, or Sweeden that does a great job. Turn the sound off because it is not in English so as not to be distracting. It has English subtitles running so you can follow along. I'll see if I can locate it and put a link here.

 

[southsoundtree]

Thanks for posting that.

 

[Christrees]

If you basically start over with the bore. They are very unforgiving on trying to correct the direction they started at.
I see to many people wanting to use square grind chains, only to find out what a pain it is for them to sharpen, then they quickly return to round file chains. They really aren't that hard to sharpen, but you need good light and a good sense of angles. I run my file at a 45/45/45 degrees on all three axis. It is not the best, buy easy for me to do and maintain consistently, and it gives me a pretty good grind that I can live with. And those new to square grind get confused on how the files should be used. Once you play with it a bit it isn't that hard. A bit more time consuming is all. And you need damn good light to see where your corner is.
My suggestion: Do not watch and follow Buckin Billy Bob's backwoods bible bangin bullshit videos on square grind. There is a good Youtube video on square grind put out by some fellow in Norway, or Sweeden that does a great job. Turn the sound off because it is not in English so as not to be distracting. It has English subtitles running so you can follow along. I'll see if I can locate it and put a link here.

Great advise man I appreciate it..


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[Friedrich]

If you basically start over with the bore. They are very unforgiving on trying to correct the direction they started at.
I see to many people wanting to use square grind chains, only to find out what a pain it is for them to sharpen, then they quickly return to round file chains. They really aren't that hard to sharpen, but you need good light and a good sense of angles. I run my file at a 45/45/45 degrees on all three axis. It is not the best, buy easy for me to do and maintain consistently, and it gives me a pretty good grind that I can live with. And those new to square grind get confused on how the files should be used. Once you play with it a bit it isn't that hard. A bit more time consuming is all. And you need damn good light to see where your corner is.
My suggestion: Do not watch and follow Buckin Billy Bob's backwoods bible bangin bullshit videos on square grind. There is a good Youtube video on square grind put out by some fellow in Norway, or Sweeden that does a great job. Turn the sound off because it is not in English so as not to be distracting. It has English subtitles running so you can follow along. I'll see if I can locate it and put a link here.

he is from switzerland, good video.

what i like about square filed chain is how easy it is to correct a facecut (not that i ever need to do that haha) what i mean is cutting in at a weird angle with a round filed chain, the cut wants to „roll off“ but the the square filed cuts in like i want it to. sorry for my confused description..

 

[southsoundtree]

That is understandable.

Like driving a wood screw into wood at a steep angle, start closer-to-perpendicular for a second, then turn the bar or screw to the angle you want.

Chain tension is also important be able to correct the kerf.

 

[Bart_]

I think the two vulnerabilities are hook cutting edge angle and shape of the peak point of the tooth. Steeper hook faster cut and less durable, gnarly point great cutting poorer durability. Enter semi chisel etc chasing the holy grail. You can tune the aggressiveness with raker depth/height a bit sort of, shallower higher rpm cutting vs torquey digging in cut. If you underdo it it won't cut and if you overdo it the chain teeth lock in the wood and stall. Factory is usually a good compromise setting. I found Stihl raker causes gave less aggression than a new from box chain. Not sure if chain styles like RS vs safety have different depth specs.

 

[southsoundtree]

As your tooth gets smaller, your file needs to get smaller and raker offset gets bigger.

 

[Friedrich]

As your tooth gets smaller, your file needs to get smaller and raker offset gets bigger.

i use the same file till the last filling, same raker height difference, cuts like a raped ape

 

[Mick Dempsey]

I have heard of ‘half life’ files, slightly smaller diameter than the standard for the last few sharpens of a chain.

 

[southsoundtree]

i use the same file till the last filling, same raker height difference, cuts like a raped ape

How do you maintain the side plate shape and keep from cutting too deeply?

Can you post pics of small cutters?

 

[Jehinten]

I'm not saying that I'm perfect at freehand filing, but my saws tend to cut well. Here are a few pics of a cutter that I'm working on this evening. I'll hit the rakers after all of the teeth, so the one in the pics is a bit high.


The first one was before I started. Stihl chain as mentioned before has a line etched to show the suggested angle as well as the shape of the gullet as you can see in the last picture.

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[southsoundtree]

Have you taken down the rakers, yet, since new?
Cutting hardwoods?

 

[Jehinten]

Have you taken down the rakers, yet, since new?
Cutting hardwoods?

Asking about my chain? I don't believe so, but I have now since that pic was taken.

Almost exclusively hardwoods here. Although I've cut more pine trees in the last month (9) than I did all last year.

I typically work with Oaks, Maples and Ash.

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[Treeaddict]

Shove a wedge between the chain and the bottom of your bar before you sharpen. It keeps the tooth upright and tight against the bar.
All my saws above 50cc are square grind. I can tell you a few things about that. First, if you are cutting mostly hardwoods I would forget the square grind. It is super fast for cutting pines, spruces, and firs, but not so hot for hardwoods. Second, if you are someone who like to steer their cut, you can't with a square grind. How you start the cut is how it is going to end, no tweaking as you go. Third, if you are having trouble filing round I would skip the square grind. It is a whole new ball game and takes precise and patient work with excellent light. Fourth, if you are attempting a plunge cut with a square grind be ready for some serious kickback until you get the hang of it. It is five time more likely to do that than the round grind chains. Also, square grind dulls faster. If you hit a piece of metal, you had better have the patience of a saint.
I deal with mostly aspen, spruce and balsam, the square grind shines with those. If I was cutting maples, oaks, or similar wood I would not have them on my saws.

You saved me a lot of future headaches!

I’ve wanted to try square grind for the speed but 95% of what I cut is hardwood. Guess I’ll stick to round filing.