Wedges or Rope?

Dan Thornton

Dan Thornton

Participating member
Location
Smithsburg
When felling a tree, which is safer - pulling with a rope or tipping with wedges? Does the lifting effect of wedges have a greater chance of prematurely breaking a hinge than does pulling the top over with a rigging rope?
 
Which is safer?
It is not really a question that can be answered as either or. Depends upon the tree and what else is going on.
The wedge will not harm the hinge unless you drive the wedge into the hinge.
I've never been one for pulling a tree over unless it was absolutely necessary. On any tree large enough to put a wedge in the kerf while cutting, I do. And if I can tip it by smacking on that wedge, I will. If the tree is compromised by rot or other things that make it sketchy to fell with a wedge, I will put a rope(s) on it to keep it from going where I don't want it to go. If the tree leans a lot in a direction you don't want it to go, then pulling might be a good option, along with a modified face cut for added hinge endurement. Are you cutting in a residential neighborhood, or in the woods? Makes a difference on what you do. What kind of tree? Makes a difference. Nobody is going to try and pull a 180' Douglas fir over with a rope, and nobody is going to wedge a Crape Myrtle.
Safest for you? A rope as far away as possible. Safest for stuff around the tree? Case by case scenario.
 
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My answer to that question will always be: a rope. Unless you are qualified to figure out the answer on your own, and by your asking that tells me you are not, the answer will be a rope. It gives you much more leverage, you can anchor it to something solid, and greatly reduce the likelihood of losing a tree over backwards if you misread the natural direction of lean.
 
Wedges don't lever on bad roots or sections of the trunk below the rope.

Ropes don't direct the tree, but can assist against side lean.

Too much tension on a rope can barberchair a tree, and will cause more reaction on a spar for the climber.

Ropes can create speed/ momentum to get and keep the tree moving quickly, as sometimes needed with a compromised hinge.

A back leaner with side lean and decay with wedges can be bad.

Spending a bunch of time installing and then cutting a tree up, in top of a rope takes time, mental and physical energy, and risks cutting a rope.

Stacked wedges can spit out, without care and skill.


Climbing to hang a rope that is 'manually' installed, instead of with a throw line, is a risk. Nobody gaffed out or gaffed themselves, nor fell out of a tree when wedging. Saving mental and physicsl energy can later tasks safer.

Beating-over heavy trees can be a strain on the body.

Both have their places.
 
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These replies are very helpful. I'm making a list...
To my precise question, the direct answer from Shadowscape is most helpful: "The wedge will not harm the hinge unless you drive the wedge into the hinge."
Then the caveat mentioned by Southsoundtree reinforced the reason for my question: "A back leaner with side lean and decay with wedges can be bad." So there are times when wedging causes more trouble than good. The best answer of course is Tony's: "Yes." This is a great group!
I'm trying to get a feel for the forces happening in the hinge. Kind of formulating the question as I go along.
So, am I right to conclude that in a theoretically sound, straight and balanced tree, the wedge is only lifting the back of the tree and is actually increasing compression on the hinge? If so, that's as safe as pulling with a rope (in a sound, straight and balanced tree.)
But it seems that if there is some back lean on that otherwise sound and balanced tree, then there is already tension on the hinge. That's when the act of hitting the wedge actually increases the tension on the hinge, increasing the chances of its failure. Since a pulling rope on a back leaner will immediately decrease the tension on the hinge and eventually compress it, it is inherently safer in those cases.
Am I on the right trail?
 
What do you mean by “ safe”?
Both can be “ safe”
I pretty much only use pull lines. If I use a wedge it’s usually in conjunction with a pull line.
My wedge skill is weak
 
The force on the hinge will be the same is the rope is pulling in line with the lay, or the wedge is lifting perpendicular to the hinge, back leaning or not.

On a perfect tree with good hinge wood and no lean the answer is still yes!

Unless you anchor a pull line very low or pull from a drastic angle different than the lay the force on the hinge remains relatively the same. (Most or the time!)

As wedges are driven closer to parallel with the hinge and closer to the hinge mechanical advantage is lost and the hinge will see more tension or lifting.

This is neither good nor bad in and of itself. Might be just what the Dr. ordered when compensating for a bit of side lean. Or it might be tragic if the hinge fibers fails in tension as opposed to bending.

There is no silver bullet.

Tony
 
Reach said:
My answer to that question will always be: a rope. Unless you are qualified to figure out the answer on your own, and by your asking that tells me you are not, the answer will be a rope. It gives you much more leverage, you can anchor it to something solid, and greatly reduce the likelihood of losing a tree over backwards if you misread the natural direction of lean.
Click to expand...
@Reach for the win.
 
Really? None of my insurance has ever been that specific. I'll certainly 'second' the idea of using both, they work together and act as a backup to each other. Or at least if you are using a rope, might as well put wedges in as well.

At the end of the day, the right call is completely specific to the situation at hand, but here in doug fir country, I'm wedging over 100'+ trees all the time, and only use pull ropes maybe 5% of the time.
 
I imagine most loggers (or logger-trained folks) will go for the wedges or even add a jack. That’s not a criticism, just an observation. In the same way, most residential tree workers probably rely on ropes tip over a tree. As you can already see above, there are advantages and disadvantages for each approach. The common goal is to mitigate the disadvantages. Let’s look at a couple of scenarios for each:

The wedge lifts the tree with mechanical advantage that also adds tensile stress on the hinge fibers, especially in the back. If the hinge is too narrow/weak it can pull apart and gravity dictates the fall. With a rope, this hinge might still fail, but the rope can restrict the direction of fall.

On the other hand, if you pull too much on a rope, the internal strain along the trunk as it bends can induce a barber chair. That’s my biggest concern when I see machinery pulling the rope. Usually there’s no feedback to tell how much tension is present in the rope. You can tell when a wedge has reached its limit by the sound or the lack of progress as you bang on it.

Once the trunk lifts off the wedge, the hinge, gravity, and angular momentum dictate where the tree goes. The same is true once the rope gets slack. The key is to study the situation and have a plan regardless of whether you use one or both.
 
Dan Thornton said:
When felling a tree, which is safer - pulling with a rope or tipping with wedges? Does the lifting effect of wedges have a greater chance of prematurely breaking a hinge than does pulling the top over with a rigging rope?
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If by "safer" you mean giving yourself the best chance of getting a back-leaner/side-leaner to hit its intended lay then its a tagline 99 % of the time. This is going under the assumption that your crew members and yourself know how to properly pull on a tagline...
 
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evo said:
Could always do both. I had a insurance policy which required it
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This is almost always true for my ground felling work. I consider Wedges and a hammer PPE for felling and always have 3-4 wedges with me when running a saw.

I require the crews to have a rope in every tree we are felling unless there is a specific reason not too.

The rope does the majority of the work, the wedges allow the cutter to adjust, manipulate, protect, and manage the cut as he/ she sees fit in the moment.

I fully understand that there are areas/ situations where ropes are not practical for many reasons.


Tony
 
27RMT0N said:
Really? None of my insurance has ever been that specific. I'll certainly 'second' the idea of using both, they work together and act as a backup to each other. Or at least if you are using a rope, might as well put wedges in as well.

At the end of the day, the right call is completely specific to the situation at hand, but here in doug fir country, I'm wedging over 100'+ trees all the time, and only use pull ropes maybe 5% of the time.
Click to expand...
Yeah it was weird, it also required a height limit. One that came back quite short which I discovered, called the agent and some how they changed it to 150’. It was called assisted felling or something like that then went on to detail ‘pull rope’ and ‘wedges’, and ‘no felling within city limits’
 
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