Video: Adjusted gun/tapered hinge experiment

C

Colin

Administrator
Administrator
Ekka,

I agree with your assessment of the tapered hinge.

I use a tapered hinge quite often and have done so for the past 20 years. I use the tapered hinge to strengthen the hinge on the up hill side on trees that have leans and/or crowns that are weighted off center of my felling target. I also use it in the tree. I don't believe it affects the direction of fall.

I don't know if Stihl does it now or not but in the mid eighties they taught chain saw usage and tree felling techniques. They spent a whole day with us at one of our work sites. It was my first exposure to the tapered hinge....and square ground saw chain. I started using both shortly afterwards.

Dan
 
Nicely done Ekka - i picked up some nice aussie atmosphere. Although I always fell low down - the tree can't drop on you when chasing the hinge, and its easier to swing an axe or use the legs with a lever. You can lean into the tree too and its more ergonomic (did I say ergonomic again /forum/images/graemlins/crazy.gif ?)

The only way I've turned trees is to 'Chase the hinge' - as its committing to the lay, release one side of the hinge with the saw. The tree will swing the opposite side of the cut hinge. Also works at twisting the tree so it doesn't snap at forks on landing - depends how much wood you release.

i only attempt pulling stunts on chewy soft woods like spruce. Trying to get Poplar and Ash to play ball is risky business.

And I agree with your conclusion that the offset hinge helps to stop the tree breaking off in the direction of lean, which is how it is taught here.

The trees looked a bit too dry to hope for swing though.
 
I wouldn't use a wedge in the center of the back cut because it's causing the entire tree to lift breaking the wood across the hinge which isn't what you want when attempting to turn the tree.
The tree won't turn as well if there's top weight pulling it in the opposite direction and dead wood won't pull like green wood does.
 
Man, I wish I could watch your video Eric, but I'm having a problem with my PC viewing video clips. May have something to do with my proxy settings. I do not have a clue.

Good to see people experimenting with diffent techniques, and getting a chance to see what works and what doesn't.

Personally, I think that using a combination of tapered hinge AND the adjusted gunning tech. will work very well most of the time, and that is what I am trying to fine tune my felling tech. with now.

Chris
 
This is what I mean by wedge placement.
If the wedge is placed on the far side it will lift the tree towards the thicker part of the hinge compressing it causing it to hold longer and help turn the tree.
Stump shot will add more wood to the hinge also.
More wood in your tapered hinge will give you better force for turning the tree.
 

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Yeah, good stuff, pity the dude burned them otherwise they'd have been green.

The last one was green though, that Ard guys right about adjusting the gun. And the theories correct in practice.

I have been experimenting with palms on the pie cut too and same conclusion unless like Lazo mentioned you chase it as it's falling .... but probably get copped off for that! ah, what the heck next time I'll video it.

What I did was set the camera dead inline with the notch on the first two trees so you could see any movement. Ont the second tree you could see how the lean stayed exactly that way all the way to the ground. The last one I set it for where I knew the tree would fall.

It wasn't till I got home and slowed it down that you actually could see what was happening, I'm hooked, gotta try some more, really push the boundaries and also bring a better mallet and experiment with wedge placement.

Problem is I work urban forest and usually cant fell chit! You know, put the gaffs on get up there, cut & chuck & rope & foam /forum/images/graemlins/grin.gif
 
If anyone can burn a copy for me I will gladly pay so I can see the video too. Just PM me or let me know right here.

Kevin, that is where I put my wedge too on side leaners only I don't drive it in too far so it doesn't weaken the hinge. Tim Ard told me about that one too as well as the adjusted gun tech., though I think he learned that from Soren Ericson. Another Logging Legend.


Thanks
Chris
 
Awesome vid Eric. I use the adjusted gun and have had excellent results. The only time I leave more hingewood on 1 side is if it's a heavy leaner and there is an obstacle or structure on the "lean" side. I think your vid showed just that.
 
Norm, I think (hope, actually) I'm still not clear on just what "adjusted gun" means in this context. You have to adjust the gun when felling a leaner, even in conjunction with a taper in the hinge to ensure that the hinge fully works.

The term "adjusted gun" is usually used in opposition to "tapered hinge". By "adjusted gun" do those espousing it mean to not use a tapered hinge but to adjust direction even more than necessary and allow the hinge to fail early thereby dumping the stem somewhere short of the actual (adjusted) gun? If so, you'll have to excuse me for saying that's just pain dumb. Please tell me I'm wrong!
 
Yeah, I was a part of that discussion and even provided some of the diagrams. Whatever was meant by "adjusted gun technique" (as used in opposition to a tapered hinge with proper/suitable gunning) wasn't specifically revealed near as I can tell/recall.

Okay, I fetched the 9MB TCI Magazine article (which I'm sure I'd fetched when it first came out, now that I think about it... I remember "discussing" with Daniel at the time his use of "fall", "faller", and "falling" instead of the proper forms of "fell", "feller", and "felling" [meaning to cause to fall]). The article and the references indicate that the "adjusted gun technique" is in fact as I'd portrayed it above. One should guess, nominally at 1.5 times the usual gun adjustment, and hope that the failing standard hinge does its thing with the 1 times result. Why not just gun it where you want it to go and ensure the hinge will guide it all the way by making it thinner on the "low" side and thicker at the "high" side? But I repeat myself...
 
OK, hang on.

Are you saying the gun has to be 1.5x the offset of the lean?

So, if the lean is say 10', adjust the gun 15'?

Is this what the Ard guy says too??

This is bit of a rough rule especially for slight leans, obviously if the tree had like a 45 degree lean things may change but even then a side rope would fix it.

I'm for an adjusted gun with a tapered hinge ... use both, but no way am I over shooting at 1.5x , that's BS I reckon.

What about if you cut a really wide notch, heck even a full 90 so it hangs on to ground??
 
Ekka does what I do. If the lean is 6', I adjust the felling notch 6' and use an 80* to 90* open face notch. I want the tree as close to parellel with the ground before the notch opening closes. I use a throwline string with a shot pouch on the end for a plumb line. If there is a lean over 10', I will use a tapered hinge, and a side lean control line(s). It will also depend on the species, whether or not it has good fiber.
 
Yeah, Tim Ard and The Game of Logging people do advocate using the 1.5x the offset of the lean, but what we found out when we were getting certified for the Professional Logger program was that you overshoot your lay too often.

Not always a problem when you're in the woods, but could be in a backyard. They now teach us to use 1x the lean instead.
And a full width hinge all the way across. No tapered hinge. I do not agree with them not using the tapered hinge.

Like I said, I think a combination of both is the way to go and I will continue to fine tune my tech. using both.

Chris
 
I did another video, only had stupid palms but it proved the point yet again. Actually it was handy having palms as they are symetrical and straight so little else plays with the felling direction.

Here you go, around 5mins and 23.5mb wmv

www.palmtreeservices.com.au/video/piecuts2.wmv

I did two, one with just a tapered hinge ... the other I kept cutting the hinge away on one side as it was falling to show that it is a way (although risky) to have a little control over the direction of fall.

By the way, I was also taught that a tapered hinge opposite the lean was an effective way of having a little extra support to prevent losing the tree off to the side.

What I am trying to do now is see if that tapered hinge changes the fall direction ... and you need straight symetrical trees to do that (pines etc)

All good stuff, getting slow motion video is good, I do prefer shots from the back but couldn't in this case coz was a house there.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Are you saying the gun has to be 1.5x the offset of the lean?

So, if the lean is say 10', adjust the gun 15'?

Is this what the Ard guy says too??

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm only saying it as a quote of "the Ard guy"! As for myself, what Norm said just about sums it up. I don't know Norm's developmental process but mine was relatively independent. I've met Norm and he seems rather intelligent so I'll assume he's arrived at his system through a logical process of practical experience as well.

I like to try new things but in this case I believe I'll stick with what I know works.

[ QUOTE ]
I'm for an adjusted gun with a tapered hinge ... use both, but no way am I over shooting at 1.5x , that's BS I reckon.

[/ QUOTE ]
Ha! That pretty much describes in few words what I've been saying.
 
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