UK. Two ropes at all times(USA next?)

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This latest development with the enforced or mandated use of twin line systems in the UK is an example of top down bureaucracy by the UK Health and Safety Executive - it’s not a grassroots development that evolved organically from within the climbing community.

It’s an outsider with limited knowledge of our work dictating how we should perform our work.

It’s almost entirely unworkable and totally impractical and in some cases downright dangerous (self rescue).

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I think I can put about 7 lines in a tree tomorrow... I should be practically immortal. I'd be so safe, that a plane could crash into the tree while I was shooting myself in the head, and I'd still survive without any injuries. I'd wear 7 helmets, too. And a fuzzy bathrobe.

Ok, the fuzzy bathrobe probably would get me wrote up by OSHA.
 
I think I can put about 7 lines in a tree tomorrow... I should be practically immortal. I'd be so safe, that a plane could crash into the tree while I was shooting myself in the head, and I'd still survive without any injuries. I'd wear 7 helmets, too. And a fuzzy bathrobe.

Ok, the fuzzy bathrobe probably would get me wrote up by OSHA.

Could always die of hypothermermia... but you would be safe...
 
I think I can put about 7 lines in a tree tomorrow... I should be practically immortal. I'd be so safe, that a plane could crash into the tree while I was shooting myself in the head, and I'd still survive without any injuries.

This just in - large codom tree collapses onto ground crew from excessive weight of all the climbing lines two climbers were required to install by new regulations, plus their rigging lines and lunch coolers. Apparently it was just too much for the old thing to hold at one time. Crew sent to hospital with unspecified injuries. Fish and game was also called to the scene after dead protected migratory birds were found at the base of the tree - speculation was that they had been sliced apart by the climbing lines and rigging in a manner not unlike that seen with wind turbines. It should be noted that the effects on migratory fowl of the large number of climbing lines in the tree were not considered in the company worksite job risk assessment and charges under the Migratory Birds and Protected Feathers Act may follow. More news to come as the situation develops.
 
The one law that would probably save more lives than any other one law would be to mandate helmets while driving a vehicle.
I have on several occasions felt very naked without my hat because I realized exactly how fast I was going and how involved in their phones virtually everyone around me was.
70mph is about how fast you're going at the bottom of a three story fall, if I am remembering correctly.
 
In all seriousness, they have people ready to get you out if you need it. Being tethered in your flipped, burning car with a broken arm is way worse than being in a flipped, burning car with a broken arm.

Had a friend years ago refuse to wear seat belts after he was in an accident and the gear stick went through the drivers seat in an accident. If he was strapped in he would have been killed - he was luckily thrown into passenger well and pretty much escaped injury...

Read an interesting article some years ago about motorsport helmets, that they are all helpful, but you still should decide what speed you are likely to encounter during an accident when buying one as different brands have different design impact velocities where the rigidity of the helmet is maximised...

Not all cut and dry...
 
... This is not to be confused with two attachment points when cutting - it means two ropes when working in the tree at all times similar to IRATA (SPRAT in the USA) industrial rope access workers...

I'd like to revisit the IRATA, SPRAT connection and what has been missed by this two rope mandated regulation. These organizations have spent decades perfecting and refining working at heights with rope in some incredibly harsh environments. But they didn't stop there. They developed a training system that is integral to everything and everyone in that field. That last part cannot be separated from the tools that they use, when safety statistics that they are rightfully proud of, are discussed. Two ropes as a stand-alone mandate does almost nothing to reduce accidents. Add a systematic training schedule that has "levels" that must be adhered to by all participating members, well now you have a recipe for high levels of safety.

The tree industry has also spent decades perfecting climbing systems for our specific and much different work environment. The systems and tools that are in use today for tree work are truly incredible and safe. What we don't have is control over how those systems and tools are used, literally, none at all. Sure we have OSHA and ANSI to guide things, but that is not even close to the same thing. Most accidents in our industry occur due to the omission of safety protocols.

There is nothing to stop a climber from switching tools and systems, without oversight, and to self proclaim proficiency. And proficient they may be, to a point, but in the field of working at height, time at a "level of proficiency" is what is needed if safety is the goal. Only with work hours accrued will the multitude of variables become apparent. Only with time, consistently doing it right, will muscle memory protect you when fatigued.

So I ask you, given the differences in our industry from theirs, how much safer will arborists be with this mandate?
 
I think the training culture is quite a bit different in Europe. I know Germany has a very structured training system that is strictly adhered to. The UK slightly less so but still leaps and bounds ahead of the free for all here in the states.
 
I still think competency is more than complying with a fixed code with fixed systems. We still have tree assessments as a major factor in using any system at all which is foreign to other climbing disciplines and is likely a major factor in climber safety.

Facebook over the last few months has had a plethora of accident videos and almost none had anything to do with climbing system, rope, or TIP failure. There’s been: trunk barberchairs, still being tied into top being cut, ambitious cuts with the top striking climber in way down etc but few equipment related failures. Mostly concentration and assessment related...
 
I was giving an estimate a few weeks ago for a customer and while we were looking at her trees the neighbor fell off a ladder while scraping paint from the second story window sill. I saw the entire thing happen. Incredible the amount of force he hit the ground with and how fast it happened. Just lost his balance. Definitly life altering injuries, thankfully did not hit his head. Many broken bones though. The ambulance was there in three minutes which was awesome. He was in the ambulance and driving to the hospital in another 3 minutes. All I did was call 911 and tell the man to try not to move but I did feel like the aerial rescue trainings and the little bit of first aid trainings that I have had over the years did kick in reflexively. My customer completely panicked.
 
I'd like to revisit the IRATA, SPRAT connection and what has been missed by this two rope mandated regulation. These organizations have spent decades perfecting and refining working at heights with rope in some incredibly harsh environments. But they didn't stop there. They developed a training system that is integral to everything and everyone in that field. That last part cannot be separated from the tools that they use, when safety statistics that they are rightfully proud of, are discussed. Two ropes as a stand-alone mandate does almost nothing to reduce accidents. Add a systematic training schedule that has "levels" that must be adhered to by all participating members, well now you have a recipe for high levels of safety.

The tree industry has also spent decades perfecting climbing systems for our specific and much different work environment. The systems and tools that are in use today for tree work are truly incredible and safe. What we don't have is control over how those systems and tools are used, literally, none at all. Sure we have OSHA and ANSI to guide things, but that is not even close to the same thing. Most accidents in our industry occur due to the omission of safety protocols.

There is nothing to stop a climber from switching tools and systems, without oversight, and to self proclaim proficiency. And proficient they may be, to a point, but in the field of working at height, time at a "level of proficiency" is what is needed if safety is the goal. Only with work hours accrued will the multitude of variables become apparent. Only with time, consistently doing it right, will muscle memory protect you when fatigued.

So I ask you, given the differences in our industry from theirs, how much safer will arborists be with this mandate?
This is the best post in this thread.
 

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