top-roping only kids saddle??

[tank]

http://www.alssports.com/Black-Diamond-W...ELAID=541782559

most kids saddles i've seen say this, "top-roping only", what does that mean in relation to trees? if i were belaying my son over a natural crotch wouldn't that be the same as top ropin? and with the whole gravity issue we deal with, i don't think "bottom-roping" would work out for anyone...

with rock there is lead climbin, trad climbin and top ropin right? it seems to me that mabey the saddle isn't rated for shock load or somethin? top-ropin only would mean possibly that it might not take a decent fall?

 

[Jeff_Cochran]

a true fall arrest harness has shoulder straps

 

[Coconut]

Belaying your son over a natural crotch is the same as top roping. Top roping means the rope is anchored above the climber. As long as your son does not climb above the anchor point he will be fine.

My son wears a Black Diamond whiz-kidz Harness it is designed for rock climbing and fall arrest, he is always tied in and does not need lanyard attachment points.

Fall arrest harnesses only need shoulder straps acccording to OSHA, which has no jurisdiction over what we do recreationally. Rock climbing harnesses are designed to arrest falls far bigger than any we would experience in tree climbing and they do not have shoulder straps.

 

[Coconut]

The kids harness say top roping only to further limit the manufacture's liability, most are constucted in the same way as adult harnesses and would hold a fall. The problem is a young child may not "know how to fall", or position their body correctly to avoid injury. A young developing body is more at risk for injury from a large fall.

 

[Blinky]

That sounds right Coconut. Just don't let your kid take a long, waxed out leader fall and you'll be good.

 

[tank]

i got ya... that makes sense. So the low-n-slow method would be the best application until he gets the feel of everything. how old is ur son coconut? how did you go about getting him used to/familiar with everything? how long did it take for him to get in the swing of things? my boy is 6, i dont know when im gonna be able to get him a saddle but i've been hearin about it for at least a year now, he's stoked about climbin and he's always tryin to climb on everything i'm always tellin him to get down he aint got a rope on lol...

I use to say if i ever had a kid i wouldn't give him a hard time about skateboards n safety n sht... till my boy was born now I get problems breathin when he jumps on his board lol... funny how things change.

 

[Coconut]

My son is 5 now. I started getting him into climbing rocks and trees at around 4. It is tough with kids, somedays they are into it and have fun and somedays you spend an hour or so getting things set up and they lose patience and want to do something else. They are also ignorant to the dangers which is a catch 22, it makes them a little braver however it can get them into some percarious situations so you need to have eyes in the back of your head. There is a picture of my son zip linning at age 4 on my website.

 

[moss]

With 4-5 year-olds I put them on a Blake's DdRT system with an accessory biner or quick link just above the hitch with a pull down cord attached. Just hang your dead weight on the running end with your arms and tell them to push the hitch up. Re-grip and repeat and you can send them as high as you want. When you want them to come down belay the running end with one hand and pull the cord to release the hitch. Always good to have your rope set in the tree so you can climb with them or go get them if you need to.
-AJ

 

[hook]

Just a word on top roping, or belayed climbing where a whipper might be possible. Use dynamic rope. The harness, in my opinion is not as important as the rope in this application.

climb safe!

 

[moss]

[ QUOTE ]
Just a word on top roping, or belayed climbing where a whipper might be possible. Use dynamic rope. The harness, in my opinion is not as important as the rope in this application.

climb safe!

[/ QUOTE ]

The entire top roping/rock climbing approach is a bad idea for tree climbing, dynamic rock rope is no help when you have limbs to hit on a fall or swing back to the trunk. I think the original question was about the rating on the harness. It's much easier and safer to put a kid on a DdRT system with standard arborist rope.
-AJ

 

[Coconut]

True but I think you have it backwards; in top roping there is no whipper because the rope is anchored above the climber. Ropes for toproping are usually larger in diameter and less dynamic so you don't hit the ground from stretch on a low fall.

When lead climbing there is the risk of a long fall, you need a thinner more dynamic rope. You cannot lead climb with a harness that has a dorsal attachment point.

 

[moss]

[ QUOTE ]
True but I think you have it backwards; in top roping there is no whipper because the rope is anchored above the climber.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed there is no whipper (or shouldn't be) with top roping, it can happen if belayer isn't paying attention. I prefer to put kids climbing trees on tree climbing systems not rock or gym wall systems.
-AJ

 

[Coconut]

My son's 6th birthday is coming up in March; I am going to get him a kid's tree saddle from New Tribe.

 

[caleb]

Hey tank,
The kids saddle should be just fine as far as loads are concerned, even for a lead fall, not that he should be taking any. I think the main thing is that kids often have a higher center of gravity and a much lower experience level as far as "fall awareness" the second part being totally my own words.
With a higher center of gravity in anything other than a very "static" environment you run a much higher risk of the little tyke tipping over when they fall, which could be bad. Look at their height and weight and make the best decision about which harness they need. Age shouldn't always be the deciding factor. Petzl makes a nice harness for children that incorporates shoulder straps, but your son may or may not need this depending on the activity and his body type.
Climbing with kids can be a whole lot of fun, but I'll agree you have to shorten your attention span sometimes

edit: also, keep a helmet on him!

 

[Erlend]

Not only a higher center of gravity, but also less developed hips, compared to grown ups. So there is a small chance of kids slipping out of a sitting harness if they tip arround, compared to a full body harness.

 

[tank]

i got ya. i appreciate all the help guys, glad i asked. yeah i might want to take a look and see if hes "top heavy" i rekon. thanks for the help ya'll, it's gonna be a while till i get him anything but when the time comes i might go with the shoulder strapped ones depending on how my little one is built i rekon. and a helmet i didn't think of that...