Tony's tenets

DSMc

DSMc

Been here much more than a while
Location
Montana
Tony\'s tenets

I am starting this thread because there has been an interesting discussion (derail) on the Hitch Hiker thread starting on page 9 in the "SRT-Half the rope, twice the fun" forum.

Though it started on an SRT section of these forums, it certainly is not limited to them. So, hopefully, this will allow for a larger viewing and participating audience.

Dave
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

I hate to naysay but the idea of an additional rope and belayer while footlocking is crazy. Obey THADS and be done with it.

Also, DBI Sala type rope backups, petzl ASAP, and the DMM buddy have no place in tree work. We should be doing everything we possibly can to distance ourselves from those tools. Not integrate them much less advocate their necessity.

edit: not "DBI says...." damn autocomplete.
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

Has anyone ever tried a base tied SRT system using a 3/4 inch multi braid bull line?

The thing that creeps me out about SRT is that skinny little line and my inability to grip it in one hand with sufficient force to support my entire climbing weight on?

The additional weight of the line seems trivial compared to my ability to grip it well more easily.

Bustin out with a vertical power move using arm strength alone like Bruce Lee, is far easier with a thick gippable rope in my experience.

jomoco
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

Unfortunately my travel, schedule is picking up in the next week. I will add/ continue the discussion as possible, but do not expect much as I will be working. I am sure we can all understand.

Just to be clear, the train of though in the original thread started at the hitch hiker station, but the points I made are more universal to climbing and all systems. A unified-an-as-systimatic-as-possible approach to climbing, safety, redundancy and hazard mitigation is the goal!

I agree a belay for foot lock is silly, hence my judgement that it is a dated flawed system. Who is DBI?

I will attempt to define some terms in the near future, but it may be difficult in the near term for the reasons stated above.

I shall endeavor to persevere.

Tony
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

DBI Sala makes industrial fall protection.

http://www.gravitec.com/equipment/rope-grabs/dbi-sala-rope-grab/grb-ds-5000335/

5000300.jpg
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

[ QUOTE ]
DBI Says type rope backups, petzl ASAP, and the DMM buddy have no place in tree work. We should be doing everything we possibly can to distance ourselves from those tools. Not integrate them much less advocate their necessity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got a direct reference?

Tony
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

Its hard to come up with a better and more effecient way than footlocking. Although I am now climbing SRT almost 100% of the time i would say I still footlock 90% of the time. I almost rarely break out a pantin or mechanical device. only on the really big trees. Footlocking is still the best way of accessing most trees. I use a device that will allow me to descend on a moments notice but you cant beat the footlock.
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

That funny I don't want to pretend to know who DMI is as a voice for climbing, but I don't think it is far fetched to think if a climber wants a backup line while ascending (or even to do work) that it is less safe or a bad idea. I can see how a two independent line system could cause delay or fouling at times. As long as the climber is mindful of there climbing route then there is no real issue. I am speaking from experience. I have used a two line system with a Petzl ASAP, no real issues on my part. You just have to come up with a system that flows well while in a tree.
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

http://youtu.be/EiA3-u-OIjc

this is really most every tree I climb. Except the super big ones which doesnt happen in my life enough sadly. I have my pantin somewhere but it always seems like a pain to find it and then It gets in the way and its clankity clankity.. I had it sewn on to my boot for a while. Dont recomend that really. I found that its biggest problem was that it limited my foot locking ability which is sort of what I naturally want to do because it is what I did for so long both DRT and dDRT.
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
DBI Says type rope backups, petzl ASAP, and the DMM buddy have no place in tree work. We should be doing everything we possibly can to distance ourselves from those tools. Not integrate them much less advocate their necessity.

[/ QUOTE ]

Got a direct reference?

Tony

[/ QUOTE ]

NO, that was a typo. I was saying the DBI Sala (a brand) rope grabs, petzl ASAP/dmm buddy stuff had no place. It read as if I was quoting someone named DBI, sorry about that!
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

I find footlocking to be safer in some ways because as Nick says, you are your primary life support. Nothing scarier than a strap breaking on a pantin or popping out when you don't want to. Something really really crazy would have to happen for me to fall off a footlock. That's hard to put down in writing though and on paper footlocking is crazy. As far a pantin goes I also prefer to pop out than being clipped in. That can be a pain when your foot is stuck to the rope.
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

I really resonate with you here, Kevin. SRWP is great for ascent & work. I often use a Pantin, but foot locking is less gear intensive, and leaves out the toothed cams, which can be dicey in less than ideal ascent situations (at least mentally). Like you said, I rarely climb large trees either, and foot locking, though a bit less efficient, is a safe bet.
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

I will not train anyone to footlock as a primary ascent method.
The bimechanics of it is completely wrong and the chronic effects should be made aware.

Footlock when you have to but for the routine a proper system that lines up bones and joints and utilizes the largest muscles will ensure a long climbing life.

Should be a new thread. I don't see how the science can be debated but lets have open ears.

I would love to have competed in climb comps but a few things stopped me and life it too short 1. Footlocking 2. throwing an ugly bag
laugh.gif
3. keeping the fridge full Ha
smile.gif
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

I subscribe to footlocking and the wrench, as I also don't climb very tall trees...use the pantin sometimes, but I prefer footlocking....I never use handled ascenders...have a left hand petzl with a homemade footloop but it just sits doing nothing....
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

I am climbing the taller trees of my area on a weekly bases. I uses a Basic w/ croll and a patin every day. I have not run into any issues with safety or rope damage as of yet. I climb on static 11mm. Then again There is a whole climbing world out there outside of tree climbing that does the same thing and has no issues as well. Oh my tall tree are not tall to a lot of guys (100'- 120' maybe 130'). MY opinion may not apply though, I hate foot locking.
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

[ QUOTE ]
Its hard to come up with a better and more effecient way than footlocking.
...

[/ QUOTE ]
Now thats funny! Its cool when you prefer to footlock, but ist NO WAY more efficient then ascending with ASCENDERS!
It cant be for some Reasons, but just that you have to lift the Rope would be enough to loose in efficency against Ascenders (toothed or camed)...
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

Its hard to beat footlocking in off the ground speed. But really this is all a moot argument, the best way of ascending has to be with a Wraptor..
 
Re: Tony\'s tenets

What height do you start to use the wraptor. It is just to much to set up a rope walking or frog system or deal with a wraptor to go up 25 feet. Ill be working by the time i deal with that stuff. and evn my rope walking setup is minimalist. When I do start seeing ascents of more than that ill throw on a system but for just basic everyday climbing. Silver maples, siberians, ailanthus, birch, mulberry, catalpa, shoot pretty much everything but the monster trees that I dream about but really only climb every once in a while. I'm so jealous some of you guys it seems like your climbing monsters everyday.
 
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