to school or not to school??

[songbird]

Hey all,
Since I started climbing about a year ago, I've gotten more and more into it. This coincides with my thinking that it's time for a major change of direction, career wise, so.... It seems a natural progression to want to figure out how to incorporate climbing into making a living, and to start learning about arboriculture.

I'm most likely not gonna be able to start where a lot of you have started, as 20 yr olds hauling brush for a local tree care service (I saw 20 awhile ago!!) It may be hard for me to rack up a bunch of experience, so I'm looking to the education option.

I am checking out a program in Sustainable Horticulture at a local college (if I can finagle the funding). I am mostly interested in trees, but I'm also very into natural building (straw bale, cob... which is kinda like adobe) so this might be a good program for me. I guess I could take a few classes at an arboretum or something, but it seems like if I'm gonna do this, I may as well just do it all the way and make it count as much as possible. Kinda vault myself right in there in the thick of it.

Here are a few questions:
do you think getting a formal education or degree is a plus? How much of an advantage is it likely to give me, and will it make me more marketable in the job arena? If you do the hiring at your company, how much do you look at a person's education? Is there a difference in the types of jobs you offer someone who's got a degree?
Would I be better off looking at a forestry program?

Any advice would be appreciated, I'm also interested in hearing about other's experiences and paths.

Thanks TB peeps

 

[treesandsurf]

My recommendation would be to figure out what you ultimately see yourself doing and then decide if a degree would be worth the expense for that goal. If you are going to own your own business targeted to pruning and removal work etc. then a degree isn't absolutely necessary but wouldn't hurt.

If you are looking into doing more consulting work, for a municipality or even private property owners having a formal education will help sell yourself and will also help you in your consulting work (how to FIND the info you're looking for).

On another note, I was personally always encouraged to pursue education for the sake of education. Even if you don't get a degree, never stop learning.

jp

 

[Tom Dunlap]

It might sound boring...but a business degree is a good base. Add in a minor pertaining to what you really want to learn about.

 

[Tr33Climb3r]

Yea it may help to let us know what your exact goals are in this arboriculture world.

 

[guymayor]

Plug into OSU extension for their workshops on diagnosis etc, and get the MG's BYGL newsletter. The informal training at arboreta etc might fit your career goals, and are good networking too. Become a MG yourself.

I'm all for college, but never found a degree program that was worth the irrelevant courses. Pursue ISA certifications to advance your learning and your job prospects--they have made me healthy, wealthy, and a wise asp. jk; i was that since birth. attached is a review of nontraditional education options, and a tribute to Pink Floyd.

 

[tcsafety]

Laurie: I know what you mean. I've spent more time on this side of twenty myself.

If climbing is primary then do you see yourself as a production climber? If you are working as a climber for a company you're gonna have to spend some time on the crews. Take your time and find the right company and it'll be worth it. The fact that you know how to climb will put you in the trees more than not. I first started when I was 37, and I survived, so you'd do fine.

I'm not knocking education at all. I'm just not sure what will specifically help (besides the usual ISA stuff) if you want to be a production climber.

If climbing is secondary, then you probably have a few more options that have been mentioned.

 

[jmcscrap]

It would help (as stated before) to know what you want, if you want to be a climber and trim/remove trees day in and day out - save the money on a degree and get some cool new climbing toys! I do think Tom's idea has a lot of merit, learning the in's and out's of running your own business would be the way to go.

A degree has its place for positions at an arboretum or government job, but tree cert's have more weight in the day to day arb. company - IMO.

 

[treeweaver]

I decided I wanted to become a production climber when I was 25 which is earlier than you I guess, but I was in a real rush because I didnt want to do groundwork for years. Although I had just moved to Texas from the UK, they werent many good programs aimed specifically at commercial arboriculture. I looked into various schools and ended up moving close to Stamford Ct for three months and took classes through Bartlett that prepared arborist for applying to their state license. The licensing program in Ct is pretty hard imo, harder than the ISA exam for sure. Didnt do any climbing, just studied a lot of tree biology, structure and proper pruning techniques etc etc. When I went back to Texas my boss at the time, felt comfortable enough to let me climb and prune because, although I was pretty green at climbing he knew I was pruning correctly. Then while climbing I obtained my ISA cert and after five years I started my own company.

In any case I guess moving to another state might not be an option with little ones. Worth looking into what's available in your area. I hope you find a good program.
You are making a good life choice btw.

 

[macrocarpa]

For private sector arboriculture, experience, ISA Certs and what you know will be worth more than a degree IMO. A new forestry grad without on the job experience wont have all that many tools related to tree care. Not sure about a Sustainable Horticulture degree? It sounds like it may be more related to private sector landscaping/tree care.

I have a forestry associates degree and I dont think it has helped me much beyond tree ID and biology and some other basics. Didn't do much for me for employment. Maybe I got $1-3 more per hour than someone without a degree when starting?

But for municiple positions, at least a 4 year degree will be helpful. (Of course an urban forester rarely gets to climb and do in the field work)

Working for a really good company would be golden. I think PHC, design/planting and consulting is a good direction along with climbing. That way if you start your own business someday you'll have several service areas to offer.

 

[treehumper]

I did 2 years in the biz in my early 30's starting on the ground then migrating to the trees. No degrees but lot's of common sense. I returned to the biz when I was 43 climbing and managing the co. After 5 yrs I did the apprenticeship in Ontario which gave me more knowledge where tree bio, id and soil sciences were concerned. For climbing it gave me an opportunity to advance my techniques.

Establish your long term career goal then look at the best education to achieve that. So far there's some great advice in the previous posts but it all starts with what you want to do when you grow up!

 

[RopeShield]

Arboriculture in my opinion is an incredible amount of practical knowledge.

If you can find the best arborist in your area and work with her/him, you will be very well off.
Botanical garden as an employer is the best place to start/study. There is usually a Library, Herbarium, Plant collections and knowledgeable staff.

Soar with an Eagle not a turkey.

Invest in the books that give you the knowledge and take all the small academic steps to get certification in your state.

ISA certification is a great 1st step and will be a pleasant lead into the areas you may wish to specialize in or study at greater depth.


All the best!

 

[rfwoodvt]

I'd have to triple ditto everything said thus far and would emphasize the networking and finding a mentor or two or three.

Keep in mind too that if you read on a particular subject for 30 minutes a day at the end of 2 years you will have studied as much as someone with a college degree does in 4.

What that translates into is that unless you have to send your transcripts or sheepskin to someone you can use self directed studies to move you along.

As Tom D said, if you are thinking of self employment or contract climbing a basis in business would be good and will serve you well over time. Then minor or self direct into the arboriculture studies.

Lastly, read, read, read and then read some more. Lots of good books out there including college textbooks.

If you want an interesting first read try Gerry Baranek's Fundamentals of General Tree Work Then get some thing by Shigo and you are off to the races!

I started as a landscraperist when I was 28 and switched to trees when I was 33. 14 years later I'm still learning and burning!

Most of us have few regrets of what we did and many regrets of what we didn't do. Give it a shot, you really have nothing to lose and everything to gain!

 

[RopeShield]

[ QUOTE ]
If you want an interesting first read try Gerry Baranek's Fundamentals of General Tree Work Then get some thing by Shigo and you are off to the races!



[/ QUOTE ]

Wish i got Beraneks book years ago. Wood of saved me whole pile of grief.
Got mine autographed!

 

[treeness]

I did the school route; which there is two schools in Ontario that offer programs. One an apprenticeship and one just straight nose in the books with climbing/internship (I did this one). I worked before I went to school to see if it was really what I wanted to do, plus it gave me a very good base to start off in at school such as knots, climbing techniques and climber movement and stuff (which was all taken in from the ground). School gave a good background into the sciences and giving reason behind why we do what we do and when to do it, as well as safe climbing techniques.

Schools however don't teach production, you only learn this by working with a crew. The biz is learned from the ground up, you need to learn how to manage yourself on the ground as a production groundie before you can attempt to be a production climber. School will not defer you from grounding, it may just give you a better chance that you may get a climb now and then.

Touching on the note of 180 career crisis, I also started out as a scaper to pay the bills for my 3 year sports business advanced diploma, graduated that, and decided I wanted to climb trees .

 

[zale]

A formal education or a degree is a plus. You are only improving yourself and your job prospects. I got my associates degree in Urban Forestry and Landscape Management 20+ years ago along with a BA and a year of law school. Did all of this education help me in the field as a groundie? Absolutely not! But as the years went on, it did help me get positions I would have been unable to get without a degree.

You can't climb forever. One day we all have to hang the saddle up. What are you going to do then?

 

[songbird]

Thanks for all of your input. I am putting out the feelers to get a sense of what the options are, so that I can define my "goal". I'm not sure where I want to end up, but I believe in education as an ongoing process, and so anything I learn will be of value.

I'm probably more interested in being some kind of consultant...I have spoken with one person who is an assessor, she climbs trees and evaluates them from the top as well as the ground. I see myself doing something like that, rather than removals, etc... I think production work would be interesting and I would enjoy learning that work process, I like hard work, but there are plenty of people who already do that, so maybe focusing on learning the biology and about the health and care of trees would be the way to go.
I have a line on working at a local nature center, where they have done rec climbing events before, so that maybe a great first step.

Business courses... good idea, not my strong suit. I think I'd need a business partner who likes that part of the biz!

I know it's vague... gotta see what's out there before I know where to point myself.

Thanks for the specific book suggestions, I will check them out!