They bid tree work like they don't need money

Bango,

It probably says any written quote.

But perhaps I would provide a fake lower quote if the customer were to tell me that they had already quoted.

And make them honor that.
 
The economy is booming. More than enough work out their for everyone. It’s all about showing the value you provide to the customer. Always do your best and give it a 100 percent. Always do the right thing no matter the expense to you. Never compromise quality or integrity.

The economy is booming?

I know a lot of hard-working, legal and honest people who are lucky to make $25-$30 an hour doing self-employed work at the limits of their endurance.

The problems remain the illegals at one fringe, and the expensive show horses charging crazy money at the high end--none of them are doing the mainstream working class any favors!!
 
A new company here is advertising that they will beat any quote by 10 percent. I think it is very weasley. Should we all all adopt that marketing scam we would be doing the work for nothing.

I don't ever ask what my competitors quote.
That was very Weasley but that’s the guy that’s going to be out of business in a year because he’s going to get sick of working for free cause his profits are going out the window. So he’s the one that’s going to start drinking on the job just to deal with his problems and loose all his customers
 
The economy is booming?

It is for right now. Wait two weeks and you might find a completely different story.

I know a lot of hard-working, legal and honest people who are lucky to make $25-$30 an hour doing self-employed work at the limits of their endurance.

If you look at everything owner/operators do for their business this is certainly not all that uncommon. There is a ton of time involved in running a business that is non billable. I don’t care how you cut it. And a bunch of that time all you are doing is just pouring money out the door.

The problems remain the illegals at one fringe, and the expensive show horses charging crazy money at the high end--none of them are doing the mainstream working class any favors!!

The only guys that are hurting the guys in the middle is the low ballers. The show horses actually don’t hurt us one bit. Actually help us out considerably. We get referrals from big yellow when they cant do the job economically and at times they can’t. Even the low ballers help us out a bit by taking on a ton of little crap we would have a hard time fitting in. Sure they pick up a job or two I would like to do but that’s the game we play. Just keep our rates in line and sell our work.
 
That was very Weasley but that’s the guy that’s going to be out of business in a year because he’s going to get sick of working for free cause his profits are going out the window. So he’s the one that’s going to start drinking on the job just to deal with his problems and loose all his customers

Let this guy do it. It will kill his profit and stunt his business.
 
Two big problems in my local market. Welfare and drugs. Want to wash money? Start a tree/landscape company and sour the market with rock bottom prices, cash discounts, and checks made out to "cash". Then cook the books and price the jobs any way you want. Buy really fancy equipment. All on welfare because the business is in someone else's name. lol

Charge an estimate fee and save yourself a lot of grief. $25 for a 15 minute consultation and an estimate and watch the low ball customers fade away.
 
The illegals are the major problem around here. 20-30 years ago you could stay busy working almost year round and get all the hours you wanted in the box stores, even overtime. Now they ration those hours, and you are lucky to clear $300 a day doing tree and landscape work.

I heard of a case in Old Saybrook where a job was bid at over $1000, they brought in illegals that did it for $300 or so. Also on a roofing job a friend got estimates that were reasonably $25K-$30K on an old house; he ended up finding illegals doing the job for half that. I would like to see federal and state agents going on properties to check out IDs and legality like they do on this state with arborists doing tree work, and fish and wildlife officials can go into your freezer to see if you broke the law--and the feds can't go on worksites?? That's crazy.
 
Hi everyone, this is my first post here!

BBBtree, those numbers are shocking. I'm a general landscape contractor and soon to be certified arborist. We do landscape and lawn maintenance, installation, irrigation, landscape lighting, etc. and I need to get $350 revenue bare minimum per crew member for lawn and landscape MAINTENANCE or it's not worth being in business. That's the minimum, I actually shoot for $450 per person.

We do $600 revenue per day per person for irrigation and landscape lighting, and $800 to $1000 per day in revenue for each climber (including myself), and $400 or so per groundie.

I charge the MOST of all our services for tree work - it's dangerous, highly skilled work! I could never justify being in business if I couldn't charge appropriate, professional rates for tree work that takes into account the skills, hazards, and cost of continuing education and equipment.

Was I understanding you right that you're only able to get $800 per day for a whole tree crew (2-3 people? 4?) in your area?
 
Re: They bid tree work like they don\'t need money

As a relatively new business owner, I find bidding is the hardest part of the job. I had a lady call me last week saying that my 900$ bid to prune some maples was undercut by some fool at 75$!!! He said he could do the same work from the ground with a pruner.

Then, this week, a guy calls me and starts to ask me how much I charge to remove some branches on a tree, he said he thinks he got had by a local tree company. They pruned maybe 6-8 large branches off a willow (didn't make any nice cuts either) and just left everything there. 1000$ for 1,5 hours of work, no cleanup. If I can make 800-1000$ for a two-man crew, small chipper, dump truck and mini in a day I'm happy around here.

These to jobs are in the same market, just a few miles apart. I find it hard to bid on work when you have these two extremes.

That’s BS.

You’d think that some homeowners would see that and be apprehensive that they’re charging so low but some are just after the cheapest price and don’t give a care about insurance, etc.
 
Not to rain on the parade here, and I tend to agree with most of you, but that's business. There are no guarantees. You can lose even if you work hard. That's why mom and dad told us to go to engineering school so that at least we had some sort of leverage in the work world. Honestly, anybody can buy a saw and some climbing gear and call themselves a tree business. But we should have recognized that before we got into this business, right?

Look, I have worked close to some very successful people in some very large businesses who aren't scared to reduce the cost of their product if that's what it takes to compete. I've sat on the process review boards, did Kaizen events, and you name it, and believe me I learned to squeeze blood from turnip, and somehow in spite of ourselves, we got the cost down. Before I did all that though, I just sat around like everyone else griping about all the doom and gloom. Can you always hit your target? No. But you sure can do some serious damage to inefficiencies and waste - and maybe even have a significant revelation along the way.

I had a good friend that owns a cabinet shop that probably never made more than $40,000 a year. One night, at his shop, and over about a case of beer, I walked him around and showed him every inefficiency I saw, while our other friend kept calling BS and talking about more volume, more volume. Stupid stuff like put a trash can at every workstation and shave 10 minutes a day off that guys workload. Anyway, my friend took what I said to heart, hired me to come down and get him started, and subsequently spent a lot of time refining his workflow and reducing costs. He survived the housing crisis of 2009, and now he's making some really good money. One of the regional construction firms was so impressed with his workflow that they gave him a large commercial contract and now he's rocking.

When I was at Dell Computer, Michael Dell was always fond of the fact that he started out as a "hack", building affordable custom systems out of his dorm room at University of Texas. He was proud of it. He pretty much owns the computer industry now. When you walk into ANY work facility at Dell (20 years ago anyway), they had the entire Dell R&D process printed out on banners and secured along the walls of the facility. ANYONE could recommend a change through their review committee. Michael Dell got personally involved in that process on occasion, because he knew he was going to obliterate his competitors with it - and he did. We were PROUD of the fact that while groceries prices were soaring, computer prices were staying the same, and you were getting more horsepower.

Look, I'm not implying that bad work is okay out there. I just saying that maybe we can give the customer a good job for a lower price and stay in business. BUT ... and this is the hard part ... get ready to reduce your crew of 4 to a crew of 3, or find a way to generate more volume. That's the reality of any business today though.
 
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I see it a lot on quotes I do the first and only question they ask immediately is can you do it cheaper?

Why yes sir I always pad my numbers to not be competitive and I don’t mind working at a loss so why do t I do this 2 day job for $100. Oh and of course I run a ramshackle company that will never be audited I do all of my professional insured work under the table on the cheap. It’s a great business model for future growth.

Hhhhh F O
 
It blows my mind with all the threads on this subject out here that nobody has even mentioned the supply/demand curve. I was usually hungover when I showed up to that class, but I do remember some of it. We always talk about everything under the sun, except THAT. You got to give a little credit to some of those [LEGAL] "hacks" that understand if you reduce your price by say 20%, and still do a good job, you might end up doubling your workload. Yeah, I know, it blows for some of us that just have to charge the max, but I'm pretty sure that's why it's called a competitive market. I do sometimes wonder why some of the tree companies in my area gripe about the industry and threaten to close shop. Seems they always blame it on workers comp costs - which is only 8% in my state. Maybe they should cancel this year's "workers of the world unite" party and hold a Kaizen event instead.
 
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I agree with others on offering lower profit neighborly services, that may open the door for references, good referrals, and more profitable work in the future. Selling firewood and doing gutter cleaning for years had happy customers ask what else I did. These days that may be less likely around here, times have changed and people have all sorts of online options to find willing workers, and if they want to find the cheapest they will.
 
Brand spankin new member here, so feel free to take what I have to say with a smallest gain of salt! But that being said, myself and my partner have been operating a tree service for over 5 years now in a market of about 15,000 people, it’s essentially a part time gig but we do it with pride and care and love what we do. We started the company to fill a void in the market and for a while we operated without competition, but surprise surprise... the past two years have seen two other operations come to town.

At first I was totally pissed, worried that we were going to get low-balled out of business and thought we were going to have to drop our prices. But over the past two years I’ve seen how our reputation carries a lot of weight, referrals are important but at the end of the day we haven’t changed a thing about how we price jobs and I believe that people are truly happy with the service we deliver. Of course we have our limitations, but so do our competitors, and usually the jobs they soak up aren’t the big ones that carry the most potential profit.

Quoting a job has always been a difficult thing for me personally and I’m still tempted to come in way lower than what my partner thinks, basically because I’m afraid of losing the job over a few hundred bucks. At the end of the day we both agree that we aren’t doing the work for less than we think it’s worth, ever, and I can sleep well operating like that.

I agree with other posters about finding value-adds that you can tell matter/have value for that particular customer (ie. installing a birdhouse or batbox while we’re in the canopy, or yes, reducing that limb on that other tree for free if it fits the scope of the job we’re already doing). The customer ends up feeling like they got a ‘deal’ and a positive review like that tends to travel.
 

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